Comments on: Student Loan Crunch: Time for Action! http://www.studentdoctor.net/2008/01/student-loan-crunch-time-for-action/ An educational community for students and doctors spanning all the health professions. Sun, 22 Nov 2009 05:10:17 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Paul Mangwana http://www.studentdoctor.net/2008/01/student-loan-crunch-time-for-action/#comment-8555 Paul Mangwana Sun, 18 Oct 2009 22:41:55 +0000 http://studentdoctor.net/blog/2008/01/02/student-loan-crunch-time-for-action/#comment-8555 I know of a guy who never graduated from college because he worked 40-plus hours/week for almost 24 years. He did invest some of his money into oil exploration on the west coast of Africa. Ben: When I was 17 I walked into the jungle. When I was 21 I walked out.And, by God, I was rich! --Arthur Miller, Death of a Salesman He is in the process of selling his shares in oil fields.Maybe he will go back to school? I know of a guy who never graduated from college because he worked 40-plus hours/week for almost 24 years. He did invest some of his money into oil exploration on the west coast of Africa.

Ben: When I was 17 I walked into the jungle. When I was 21 I walked out.And, by God, I was rich!
–Arthur Miller, Death of a Salesman
He is in the process of selling his shares in oil fields.Maybe he will go back to school?

]]> By: effortlessgrace http://www.studentdoctor.net/2008/01/student-loan-crunch-time-for-action/#comment-1062 effortlessgrace Sat, 08 Mar 2008 19:11:22 +0000 http://studentdoctor.net/blog/2008/01/02/student-loan-crunch-time-for-action/#comment-1062 My parents are not wealthy. Not poor, but not all that well-off either. I went to a private college - a $40,000/year private college - and, because I worked incredibly hard in high school and earned good grades and a lot of awards, the college itself paid for the vast majority of my attendance. NOT your taxes, but the donations of the alumni. I borrowed $4000 total and my parents paid perhaps an equal amount for my entire tuition. Now, I go to a private medical school. A $40,000/year BEFORE cost of living medical school. By the time I graduate, I will have accrued nearly a quarter of a million dollars in debt (before interest). I have been given less than $5000/year in grants, and forced to borrow the rest of it if I am to do the only thing I ever wanted to do with my life. I worry about that constantly. It's the price I have to pay for my dream, so I've come to terms with it. But it wasn't a cavalier decision. I could have gone into law, or business, or something else more lucrative. Someday, when I keep your teenage child from killing herself, won't you be glad that I decided to go into psychiatry instead? When the government pays me a pittance for that service because you can't afford to, won't you be glad that you, too, get to "steal" from your fellow citizens? Had my parents been poor, instead of simply not rich, odds are I wouldn't even be asking you these questions. The answer is not to subsidize loan repayment. The answer is to socialize education, as many other countries have done, and to improve the education system. If a child growing up in poverty in the inner city wanted to go to medical school, and didn't have to decide to take on a debt burden greater than their parents' lifetime incomes combined, wouldn't he/she be more likely to graduate from high school and pursue his/her dream? If education was free, for everyone, as far as they wanted to go, I would be d*mn happy to pay more taxes. And I think the US would be a lot better off. My parents are not wealthy. Not poor, but not all that well-off either. I went to a private college – a $40,000/year private college – and, because I worked incredibly hard in high school and earned good grades and a lot of awards, the college itself paid for the vast majority of my attendance. NOT your taxes, but the donations of the alumni. I borrowed $4000 total and my parents paid perhaps an equal amount for my entire tuition.

Now, I go to a private medical school. A $40,000/year BEFORE cost of living medical school. By the time I graduate, I will have accrued nearly a quarter of a million dollars in debt (before interest). I have been given less than $5000/year in grants, and forced to borrow the rest of it if I am to do the only thing I ever wanted to do with my life.

I worry about that constantly. It’s the price I have to pay for my dream, so I’ve come to terms with it. But it wasn’t a cavalier decision. I could have gone into law, or business, or something else more lucrative. Someday, when I keep your teenage child from killing herself, won’t you be glad that I decided to go into psychiatry instead? When the government pays me a pittance for that service because you can’t afford to, won’t you be glad that you, too, get to “steal” from your fellow citizens?

Had my parents been poor, instead of simply not rich, odds are I wouldn’t even be asking you these questions. The answer is not to subsidize loan repayment. The answer is to socialize education, as many other countries have done, and to improve the education system. If a child growing up in poverty in the inner city wanted to go to medical school, and didn’t have to decide to take on a debt burden greater than their parents’ lifetime incomes combined, wouldn’t he/she be more likely to graduate from high school and pursue his/her dream? If education was free, for everyone, as far as they wanted to go, I would be d*mn happy to pay more taxes. And I think the US would be a lot better off.

]]> By: Even Rome Fell http://www.studentdoctor.net/2008/01/student-loan-crunch-time-for-action/#comment-1061 Even Rome Fell Wed, 27 Feb 2008 23:44:56 +0000 http://studentdoctor.net/blog/2008/01/02/student-loan-crunch-time-for-action/#comment-1061 While there seem to be some very passionate people here on both sides of this argument, it seems there are only intelligent people on one side of it. To expect ANY student to try to pay that hefty amount of student loan payments while going to school full time and not being able to hold another job is without a doubt the most unrational thing I have heard in a long time. Fact: There is a Physician shortage in the United States that is increasing to the point that Medical Schools are loosening up their restrictions. Fact: Medical School in a foreign country is not as regarded as those in America because they do not follow the same criteria. This means the "cheaper" schools that were mentioned earlier do not help the American public. Fact: There are programs in place for underserved areas with high HPSA scores, but there are also not enough physicians to work in these areas because many people don't want to go to school and accumulate $160,000 in student loans... nor do they want to work with idiots like the Neurosurgeon (I don't actually think he is a Neurosurgeon... maybe a med student daydreaming, but I doubt I would ever put any stock in anyone that leaves a comment like that). Fact: Primary Care residencies are noticing startling rates of reduced admissions due to the fact that there is not enough compensation in these areas and the ease of getting into other specialties. Fact: This physician shortage will get worse, and if Americans want health care, they had better buck up and pay for it. Conservatives and Liberals alike can bet their bottom dollar that if physicians are forced into uncomfortable (more than they already are) situations in Medical school and residency, they will leave the health care field and move to something easy... like Law! Fact: Illegal immigration is destroying reimbursements. Riddle: A resident makes about $2,200 a month but is expected to pay $2,000 in student loans and has no time to actually get another job because school is kicking his/her @$$... how do they eat, pay rent, own a car, or even afford to bath and practice personal wellness? And if they can manage to somehow scrape by, how do they actually make the transition to becoming a "Good" physician when they could barely concentrate on their studies? Question: When did education become so expensive? It has always cost us time, patient, and attentiveness... we have always had to sacrifice so much to become educated, but now we also have to go broke to do it? Question: Don't those living and growing up in underserved areas have the right to learn to practice medicine as well as those that grow up in significantly better financial situations? Anyone going into medicine under these guidelines would need to have the backing of someone like in Northern Exposure. In my opinion those that are for students being required to start paying back their student loans while in residency are not thinking on a large scale. This tells me their narrowed views probably have left them lonely and facing the world as outcasts. I don't care if you are a Conservative (which I am fiscally conservative) or a Liberal, it makes no sense what-so-ever to promise someone FINANCIAL AID (think of the meaning financial aid, don't just hear it as a word) and then strip that in the time when they need it most. Without going on to much further, I pitty those people that truly do not understand how humane medicine is, and how beneficial it is to society. If we do not want medical services to go out of the country, we will need to do something about this crisis that will increase attendance into medical school not decrease it. While there seem to be some very passionate people here on both sides of this argument, it seems there are only intelligent people on one side of it. To expect ANY student to try to pay that hefty amount of student loan payments while going to school full time and not being able to hold another job is without a doubt the most unrational thing I have heard in a long time.

Fact: There is a Physician shortage in the United States that is increasing to the point that Medical Schools are loosening up their restrictions.

Fact: Medical School in a foreign country is not as regarded as those in America because they do not follow the same criteria. This means the “cheaper” schools that were mentioned earlier do not help the American public.

Fact: There are programs in place for underserved areas with high HPSA scores, but there are also not enough physicians to work in these areas because many people don’t want to go to school and accumulate $160,000 in student loans… nor do they want to work with idiots like the Neurosurgeon (I don’t actually think he is a Neurosurgeon… maybe a med student daydreaming, but I doubt I would ever put any stock in anyone that leaves a comment like that).

Fact: Primary Care residencies are noticing startling rates of reduced admissions due to the fact that there is not enough compensation in these areas and the ease of getting into other specialties.

Fact: This physician shortage will get worse, and if Americans want health care, they had better buck up and pay for it. Conservatives and Liberals alike can bet their bottom dollar that if physicians are forced into uncomfortable (more than they already are) situations in Medical school and residency, they will leave the health care field and move to something easy… like Law!

Fact: Illegal immigration is destroying reimbursements.

Riddle: A resident makes about $2,200 a month but is expected to pay $2,000 in student loans and has no time to actually get another job because school is kicking his/her @$$… how do they eat, pay rent, own a car, or even afford to bath and practice personal wellness? And if they can manage to somehow scrape by, how do they actually make the transition to becoming a “Good” physician when they could barely concentrate on their studies?

Question: When did education become so expensive? It has always cost us time, patient, and attentiveness… we have always had to sacrifice so much to become educated, but now we also have to go broke to do it?

Question: Don’t those living and growing up in underserved areas have the right to learn to practice medicine as well as those that grow up in significantly better financial situations? Anyone going into medicine under these guidelines would need to have the backing of someone like in Northern Exposure.

In my opinion those that are for students being required to start paying back their student loans while in residency are not thinking on a large scale. This tells me their narrowed views probably have left them lonely and facing the world as outcasts. I don’t care if you are a Conservative (which I am fiscally conservative) or a Liberal, it makes no sense what-so-ever to promise someone FINANCIAL AID (think of the meaning financial aid, don’t just hear it as a word) and then strip that in the time when they need it most.

Without going on to much further, I pitty those people that truly do not understand how humane medicine is, and how beneficial it is to society. If we do not want medical services to go out of the country, we will need to do something about this crisis that will increase attendance into medical school not decrease it.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.studentdoctor.net/2008/01/student-loan-crunch-time-for-action/#comment-1060 Anonymous Sun, 10 Feb 2008 00:03:15 +0000 http://studentdoctor.net/blog/2008/01/02/student-loan-crunch-time-for-action/#comment-1060 Its a fact, doctors deserve more all the work they put into medicine is undermined by the common man. Non-health care people should keep their criticism to a certain level..try going through all the training to become a physician and then comment on these issues. Physicians sacrifice quite a lot throughout their lives. Its a fact, doctors deserve more all the work they put into medicine is undermined by the common man. Non-health care people should keep their criticism to a certain level..try going through all the training to become a physician and then comment on these issues. Physicians sacrifice quite a lot throughout their lives.

]]> By: cotroni http://www.studentdoctor.net/2008/01/student-loan-crunch-time-for-action/#comment-1059 cotroni Fri, 25 Jan 2008 17:35:24 +0000 http://studentdoctor.net/blog/2008/01/02/student-loan-crunch-time-for-action/#comment-1059 Hi all, Come to France,or Belgium, or spain, or Italy, med school only costs 400 euros a years!!! can you imagine that? I don't think so...and medicine is high level too... Instead of arguing with each other you should probably realise that you are experiencing a "side effect" of the most outrageous, and corrupted economical system you live in....the US capitalism and individualism that exist in the US.... When I hear "god bless america" and I see that 45 millions americans with no healthcare insurance...my god!!!! this 2/3 third of the french population....are you sure god blessed your country? and your goal is to cure people?????...well changing your political and social system would certainly cure more people than being 160 000 dollars in debt at a screwing bank , don't you think so? Sort yourself out and be more human being oriented instead of money oriented, things will become more fair to everyone...don't you htink so? med student would pay less expensive med studies, and fellow citizen would not have to pay for med student's debt... It is always surprising and almost funny to watch people being surprised by the negative consequences of a political and economical system they have voted been for for awhile..... suddenly that struggling life is knocking at your doors then you start to wonder:"heyyy what's going on to me myself and I?".... Had you been less individualist you would not go to med school and would figure out you can help people far better than by studying medicine at a cost of 160 000 dollars....you could at least study overmedicine overseas... basic maths: how many people can you help with 160 000 bucks?....160 000 it is 16000 people giving 10 each to help....see what I mean? ethically speaking beware that when you accept to take 160 000 dollars from screwing banks for med school you accept to maintain the vicious spiral of your corrupted financial system......... alternatively, it your own choice...so stop complaining and accept what you signed up for.... Hi all,

Come to France,or Belgium, or spain, or Italy, med school only costs 400 euros a years!!! can you imagine that? I don’t think so…and medicine is high level too…

Instead of arguing with each other you should probably realise that you are experiencing a “side effect” of the most outrageous, and corrupted economical system you live in….the US capitalism and individualism that exist in the US….

When I hear “god bless america” and I see that 45 millions americans with no healthcare insurance…my god!!!! this 2/3 third of the french population….are you sure god blessed your country?

and your goal is to cure people?????…well changing your political and social system would certainly cure more people than being 160 000 dollars in debt at a screwing bank , don’t you think so?

Sort yourself out and be more human being oriented instead of money oriented, things will become more fair to everyone…don’t you htink so?
med student would pay less expensive med studies, and fellow citizen would not have to pay for med student’s debt…

It is always surprising and almost funny to watch people being surprised by the negative consequences of a political and economical system they have voted been for for awhile…..

suddenly that struggling life is knocking at your doors then you start to wonder:”heyyy what’s going on to me myself and I?”….

Had you been less individualist you would not go to med school and would figure out you can help people far better than by studying medicine at a cost of 160 000 dollars….you could at least study overmedicine overseas…

basic maths: how many people can you help with 160 000 bucks?….160 000 it is 16000 people giving 10 each to help….see what I mean?

ethically speaking beware that when you accept to take 160 000 dollars from screwing banks for med school you accept to maintain the vicious spiral of your corrupted financial system………

alternatively, it your own choice…so stop complaining and accept what you signed up for….

]]> By: jim http://www.studentdoctor.net/2008/01/student-loan-crunch-time-for-action/#comment-1058 jim Tue, 22 Jan 2008 17:29:35 +0000 http://studentdoctor.net/blog/2008/01/02/student-loan-crunch-time-for-action/#comment-1058 Also, like when in high school, The ACT, the only section, you had to know to do good was the math part. The other sections you couldn’t really study a lot for. same way, what courses should i put a lot of emphasis in so that i can do excellent on the MCAT? what courses do i have to have before taking it? hope someone can help. Also, like when in high school, The ACT, the only section, you had to know to do good was the math part. The other sections you couldn’t really study a lot for.
same way, what courses should i put a lot of emphasis in so that i can do excellent on the MCAT?
what courses do i have to have before taking it? hope someone can help.

]]> By: Dean http://www.studentdoctor.net/2008/01/student-loan-crunch-time-for-action/#comment-1057 Dean Fri, 18 Jan 2008 14:26:25 +0000 http://studentdoctor.net/blog/2008/01/02/student-loan-crunch-time-for-action/#comment-1057 Lets talk about the fact the a doctors income places them in the tax bracket that pays 90% of the taxes in this nation. Any doctor, over the course of their lifetime, will more than pay for the interest the government subsidized during a deferment period. Medical students are not stealing from anybody as they will be paying it back big time in the future. The government sees fit to grant subsidies to corporations knowing that they will receive a greater return from those companies in tax revenue. Government aid for future physicians fits in the same category. Lets talk about the fact the a doctors income places them in the tax bracket that pays 90% of the taxes in this nation. Any doctor, over the course of their lifetime, will more than pay for the interest the government subsidized during a deferment period. Medical students are not stealing from anybody as they will be paying it back big time in the future. The government sees fit to grant subsidies to corporations knowing that they will receive a greater return from those companies in tax revenue. Government aid for future physicians fits in the same category.

]]> By: Jim http://www.studentdoctor.net/2008/01/student-loan-crunch-time-for-action/#comment-1056 Jim Tue, 15 Jan 2008 22:42:23 +0000 http://studentdoctor.net/blog/2008/01/02/student-loan-crunch-time-for-action/#comment-1056 Also, can i get a response from the neurosurgen? listen to him.Harold Melvin on January 6th, 2008 3:45 pm I am a neurosurgeon and make about $550,000 a year after taxes. Believe me, physicians should not worry about a subsidy. Get over the greed, you schmucks! …………………………………………. anyone on this comment live in oklahoma? i am thinking of applying there to OU. Also, like when in high school, The ACT, the only section, you had to know to do good was the math part. The other sections you couldn’t really study a lot for. same way, what courses should i put a lot of emphasis in so that i can do excellent on the MCAT? what courses do i have to have before taking it? hope someone can help. Also, can i get a response from the neurosurgen? listen to him.Harold Melvin on January 6th, 2008 3:45 pm

I am a neurosurgeon and make about $550,000 a year after taxes. Believe me, physicians should not worry about a subsidy. Get over the greed, you schmucks!

………………………………………….

anyone on this comment live in oklahoma? i am thinking of applying there to OU.
Also, like when in high school, The ACT, the only section, you had to know to do good was the math part. The other sections you couldn’t really study a lot for.
same way, what courses should i put a lot of emphasis in so that i can do excellent on the MCAT?
what courses do i have to have before taking it? hope someone can help.

]]> By: GC http://www.studentdoctor.net/2008/01/student-loan-crunch-time-for-action/#comment-1055 GC Sun, 13 Jan 2008 15:42:53 +0000 http://studentdoctor.net/blog/2008/01/02/student-loan-crunch-time-for-action/#comment-1055 First of all, Aleitheiei, I have worked my way through undergrad and havent had to take out any loans, so I havent "stolen" anything from you. If anything, according to you, everyone else has been stealing from me. I have also taken a year off to save up for med school. I have enough for two years but I'll still have around $100,000 in debt plus the cost to start up a practice. I work in an ER right now and more than half the people that come in are on medicaid or medicare, they dont pay a cent, my taxes pay for them! Half of the remaining people dont even pay their bills and the hospital is located in a very rich area. We loose soo much money everyday the hosiptal is up for sale now. There are many doctors everywhere that are not getting adequate compensation for their work. So how are they suppose to support themselves and their families while paying off outstanding loans. As Josh said earlier, not everyone is a neurosurgeon! You also have to consider those students in other health professions, like nursing, podiatry, dentistry, pharmacy, and veterinary medicine. These people dont make nearly as much as neurosugeons. I dont think that it is unreasonable at all to ask for a little help in paying some of the interest while we are still in our residencies making pennies. With the weakening US dollar, inflation, a resession looming, and the rising costs of education how are we suppose to pay our loans and survive on a resident's salary? The new law won't decrease your taxes, it will only allocate it to something else like the war. So why not help the people that are going to be taking care of your lives in the future instead of wasting it on a war that was started by a puppet for a president with a hand stuck up his ass. First of all, Aleitheiei, I have worked my way through undergrad and havent had to take out any loans, so I havent “stolen” anything from you. If anything, according to you, everyone else has been stealing from me. I have also taken a year off to save up for med school. I have enough for two years but I’ll still have around $100,000 in debt plus the cost to start up a practice. I work in an ER right now and more than half the people that come in are on medicaid or medicare, they dont pay a cent, my taxes pay for them! Half of the remaining people dont even pay their bills and the hospital is located in a very rich area. We loose soo much money everyday the hosiptal is up for sale now. There are many doctors everywhere that are not getting adequate compensation for their work. So how are they suppose to support themselves and their families while paying off outstanding loans. As Josh said earlier, not everyone is a neurosurgeon! You also have to consider those students in other health professions, like nursing, podiatry, dentistry, pharmacy, and veterinary medicine. These people dont make nearly as much as neurosugeons. I dont think that it is unreasonable at all to ask for a little help in paying some of the interest while we are still in our residencies making pennies. With the weakening US dollar, inflation, a resession looming, and the rising costs of education how are we suppose to pay our loans and survive on a resident’s salary? The new law won’t decrease your taxes, it will only allocate it to something else like the war. So why not help the people that are going to be taking care of your lives in the future instead of wasting it on a war that was started by a puppet for a president with a hand stuck up his ass.

]]> By: Jim http://www.studentdoctor.net/2008/01/student-loan-crunch-time-for-action/#comment-1054 Jim Fri, 11 Jan 2008 02:43:29 +0000 http://studentdoctor.net/blog/2008/01/02/student-loan-crunch-time-for-action/#comment-1054 Also, can i get a response from the neurosurgen? listen to him.Harold Melvin on January 6th, 2008 3:45 pm I am a neurosurgeon and make about $550,000 a year after taxes. Believe me, physicians should not worry about a subsidy. Get over the greed, you schmucks! ................................................. anyone on this comment live in oklahoma? i am thinking of applying there to OU. Also, like when in high school, The ACT, the only section, you had to know to do good was the math part. The other sections you couldn’t really study a lot for. same way, what courses should i put a lot of emphasis in so that i can do excellent on the MCAT? what courses do i have to have before taking it? hope someone can help. Also, can i get a response from the neurosurgen? listen to him.Harold Melvin on January 6th, 2008 3:45 pm

I am a neurosurgeon and make about $550,000 a year after taxes. Believe me, physicians should not worry about a subsidy. Get over the greed, you schmucks!

………………………………………….

anyone on this comment live in oklahoma? i am thinking of applying there to OU.
Also, like when in high school, The ACT, the only section, you had to know to do good was the math part. The other sections you couldn’t really study a lot for.
same way, what courses should i put a lot of emphasis in so that i can do excellent on the MCAT?
what courses do i have to have before taking it? hope someone can help.

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