WesternU/COMP C/O 2006 has lost 17 people and counting . . .

Originally posted by Slickness
Wow, more bad news on COMP. This is starting to worry me. On another thread I had stated I wasn't going to apply to COMP. Even though I wasn't sure if I was, this just gives me more reason not to.

Click to expand...

I suppose you are very easily wavered and influenced by internet posts, either way, maybe it is to your best interest not to apply there.

Originally posted by Informer
FYI, we've lost 17 people the first year, and more is sure to go

what sucks is that admin wont let a few people come back the next year, so they are screwed . . . they spend 50 grand, but aren't allowed to continue

there is also someone who had to drop out the first year bc of family reasons, and couldnt cut it this year, so i think that person may be out ~$100,000

reasons for withdrawal are either personal or forced withdrawal bc of academic hardship

IMHO: admin will kick you when you are down instead of helping you. my roomate who is a PA said that his program's dean will bend over backwards to get you help to pass a class. why doesnt COMP do that?

btw, we started ~180

Click to expand...

If this is happening to you, I'm sorry to hear that. By posting around SDN and vent will not help much. I suggest you to transfer if you can.

Too bad so sad.

My COMP class lost a good number of students and though it might have been awful for the "victims" it was good for the program overall.

There was one student in particular (I don't know if she ever finished) who was literally on the 7 year program AND the kinder, gentler COMP of old DID bend over backwards to help her out. Think about this though, if it takes you 3 years to complete MS-I and 2 years to complete MS-II maybe, just maybe, medicine is not the field for you. How can you survive on the wards and complete all your readings and presentations if it is so hard to juggle the simple basic science curriculum?

My class had a number of people on the 5 year plan, and though I am sure they are nice as can be and may make decent physicians, they weren't exactly the strength of the class or the students you would want representing your school on the wards.

It is good that COMP has toughened up a bit. When assigned block rotations were instituted my year there was outcry because those who wanted to slack in a year of self-scheduled cushy office rotations were going to have to work harder in the hospital setting. Sure you might want to be "just" an OMT doc or "just" FP and see no reason why you should be able to complete the work in 4 years and hold your own in a hospital, but by being a poor performer you just drag your classmates and your degree down with you.

COMP has a load of administrative woes, and while the Pum continues to hold the reigns so tightly COMP won't be able to move forward like it should. Every XYZ-COM has its own administrative problems which shouldn't affect you too much if you are working hard. COMP isn't in a handbasket surrounded by fire and brimstone and gnashing of teeth, but it isn't for everyone. If you can't get past the admin issues don't apply and don't attend.

If you can look past the ugly exterior and politics you will find an institution where you will learn what you need to learn and have excellent clinical training opportunities. Overall COMP years 1 and 2 are self-directed learning and if you are self-motivated you can do very well, learn a ton, and get great board scores. In the clinical years you have your pick of great SoCal hospitals where you can work very hard and develop into an excellent clinician. Big county hospitals are awesome and as you work alongside medstudents from USC, UCI, and LLU you will discover COMP prepared you as well as those institutions. Ultimately, COMP grads match into great specialties and great programs both osteopathic and allopathic.

Once you are well trained and in your residency of choice you won't really care about the trivial admin issues that seemed so important at the time. I was sexually harrassed in MS-I year and complained to deaf ears in the deans office. Did the fact that they were unresponsive to my issues at the time render me incapable of learning medicine? No. Did it suck? Sure, kind of. Do I care now? No.

Stop whining about "serious blows" already!

Originally posted by Informer

reasons for withdrawal are either personal or forced withdrawal bc of academic hardship

Click to expand...

What the heck is academic hardship? Isn't med school supposed to be HARD?

I agree with the above post. It's about time that COMP thin the herd. It is total BS that COMP administration does not give students ample opportunity to correct academic problems. In my class we had one student that bombed biochem. He was given the opportunity to take a re-test during the summer, but blew it again. This student started over as a first year, but failed a system, so he finally got the boot. Would you want a guy like this to be your doctor?
Other than academic failure, we also lost a few due to cheating, and family problems. Do you want to blame the COMP administration for these students getting the boot as well?

My experience at COMP has been that students will always find something to bitch about, and they always want to point the finger at the administration. I personally think that Pumerantz probably just sits back in in plush chair and laughs, because he has been listening to this crap for 25 years.

I received an e-mail just the other day informing all of the DO students that one of the local hospitals where COMP students rotate, is no longer tolerating artificial fingernails. Please!

This isn't new news to us. I think it happens to all schools. It's just that our attrition rate is a little higher than the others. I guess I admire COMP for giving students with less than average "numbers" a shot at medical school, and if they can't cut it, then at least they had a chance. Sometimes I wished the school would raise the standards just a little bit so the attrition rate won't be so high. It is very disheartening to see fellow colleagues and friends you have made walk out the door. The unfortunate thing is that COMP will be accepting a much larger class this coming year only to lose more students. COMP was my first choice school and turned it down to others. As COMP student and future COMP alumni, I will always be proud of the school I came from. It's not to say that I think COMP is perfect, but I will do all that I can as a student and future physician to improve COMP. Who knows, maybe they'll let me come back as a guest clinician someday where I can give you all hints to my test questions

Don't get me wrong Informer, I know the hurt you're going through and sometimes you just feel helpless, but in the long run I guess it's better the struggling students leave early before they incur an even larger debt. I was once on the borderline and it's a scary feeling. Just keep plugging through and you'll get through it too.

Class of 2007,
Keep your chin up, remain strong and you'll all get through the worst of it even though it may seem like eternity. Our class particularly had a very difficult time with some of the unique things that happened, but it's done and over with and we're all glad we survived.

-Rob C.
OMS-III
Class of 2005

In the light of all, it is good to hear about the real deal, thanks for responding, fellow COMPsters...

Originally posted by Slickness
Perhaps. Hopefully the school survives through your graduation.

Click to expand...

Somehow, I'm more concerned about world peace rather than the chance of that happening

I am more concerned about the school's accreditation than whether or not it will remain open.

Originally posted by BME103
I am more concerned about the school's accreditation than whether or not it will remain open.

Click to expand...

How so? Don't you attend the school yourself?
By the way, it is accredited by the AOA......
What a concept.....

It appears that Western's DO faculty members are having serious problems with the administration.

Last year, Western pharmacy almost lost its accreditation as a result of a significant lost of its faculty members. The DO school might also face with the same faith.

good for the PharmD program, gives me more reason to believe that this institution overcomes many obstacles and thru them it will be stronger....

Let me just say that I am glad I didn't apply to COMP.

Originally posted by BME103
It appears that Western's DO faculty members are having serious problems with the administration.

Last year, Western pharmacy almost lost its accreditation as a result of a significant lost of its faculty members. The DO school might also face with the same faith.

Click to expand...

Hi, I checked the accreditation site for schools of pharmacy and found that Western remains accredited, is not on probation, and is up for review in 2005. Western's program was only recently accredited - in 2001, after graduating its first class.

http://www.acpe-accredit.org/frameset_ProfProg.htm

The newsletters make no mention of Western's program being on probation, much less having its accreditation withdrawn.

Is there some site you can point us to so that I can read it for myself? It's hard to guage how true a comment is without independant verification ...

- Tae

Can I also outright say that I believe Informer and BME103 to be one in the same? Both registering days ago?

C'mon, Informer/BME103, you don't need to create 'sock puppet' personas to bolster your posts. Just post links to your claims. It's all you need to do to gain credibility.

- Tae

Originally posted by tkim6599
Can I also outright say that I believe Informer and BME103 to be one in the same? Both registering days ago?

C'mon, Informer/BME103, you don't need to create 'sock puppet' personas to bolster your posts. Just post links to your claims. It's all you need to do to gain credibility.

- Tae

Click to expand...

I am sure "Informer" would concur, we are different people. As you wish, here's a reliable link (Western University President's 2002 State of the University Address): http://www.westernu.edu/academic/stateofuniversity2002.pdf

"The College of Pharmacy has added a group of excellent new faculty members to its roster and filled vacant administrative positions and is in full compliance with American Council on Pharmacy Education (ACPE) requirements"--Page 1, Paragraph 4.

Although, he did not directly state Western Pharmacy was in trouble of losing its accreditation, this clearly indicates Western Pharmacy loss a significant number of its faculty members and its accreditation was at risk with the ACPE.

Also, as this website (http://www.westernu.edu/pharmd/faculty.htm) shows, 7 of the 24 faculty members (pharmacy practice and pharmaceutical sciences) were hired in 2002, 2003. Although the School of Pharmacy was formed in 1996, only 2 founding faculty members of pharmacy practice and pharmaceutical sciences still remain on its faculty roster as of 2003.

Originally posted by BME103

Although, he did not directly state Western Pharmacy was in trouble of losing its accreditation, this clearly indicates Western Pharmacy lost a significant number of its faculty members and its accreditation was at risk with the ACPE.

Click to expand...

Sorry, it clearly indicates nothing of the sort.

I'd like it spoon-fed to me, something like an article link from the Inland Bulletin or the like, with headlines "Western Pharm in Danger of Losing Accred" to that effect.

To bring up an issue with the pharm school, inflate it to a matter of accreditation, then try to make some logical leap or link to the possibility of the osteopathic school losing *their* accreditation is simply fallacious.

Please.

- Tae

being someone totally neutral to this topic i must say that it is refreshing to see someone like tae do some thinking on their own and not taking everything posted here at face value.

I've been so concerned with getting into a good DO school I haven't thought about staying in. I read the post about the high attrition rate at COMP and after some thought believe that cutting loose students who can't handle the academic load is a good thing. It's good that COMP gives certain students a shot at becoming doctors, but if they can't cut it they should move on. The negative is that they might set some students up for failure. But ultimately it's up to the student to succeed or fail. As for the "informer" I'll never understand why someone would take the time and effort to bash schools...If you don't like the school then don't go there.

Originally posted by tkim6599
Sorry, it clearly indicates nothing of the sort.

I'd like it spoon-fed to me, something like an article link from the Inland Bulletin or the like, with headlines "Western Pharm in Danger of Losing Accred" to that effect.

To bring up an issue with the pharm school, inflate it to a matter of accreditation, then try to make some logical leap or link to the possibility of the osteopathic school losing *their* accreditation is simply fallacious.

Please.

- Tae

Click to expand...

I agree. The article actually seem more positive than anything negative.

Originally posted by Slickness
Adding more fuel to the fire. Yet another reason to question whether to apply to COMP.

Click to expand...

I think you already have your answer, do yourself and other applicants a favor and do not apply there.

Consider it done.

being someone totally neutral to this topic i must say that it is refreshing to see someone like tae do some thinking on their own and not taking everything posted here at face value.

Click to expand...

I agree with Jhug about not taking everything posted here at face value.

I remember one disgruntle COMP student posted on this board saying how awful one of his professors was. Ironically, at COMP's current megazine "Humanism in the Health Sciences", there is a survey "Which professor would you nominate for a Most Encouraging award?". The same professor, Dennis Kiick, was nominated because "he has gone out of his way to help us as a class to master biochemistry by holding extensive weekly reviews of the difficult topics presented to aid us in the clarification..... he has devoted valuable personal time to ensure that we received the assistance we need..."

Wow! how can someone sucks so badly, to being so good and outstanding in such a short time.

IMHO, there are more crybabies at COMP than anywhere else.

Believe me, COMP is an OUTSTANDING med school. Its alumni are highly respected in the medical community, and you can take it to the bank.

Originally posted by Slickness
Why do you seem mad if people don't want to apply to COMP? I will apply there anyways just to spite you.

Click to expand...

Mad? You do read into the internet post a bit too much don't you?
I do hope to see you there next yr if you get in, and become a COMP advocate.

Originally posted by Slickness
Why do you seem mad if people don't want to apply to COMP? I will apply there anyways just to spite you.

Click to expand...

I think the reason why I respond to negative posts about COMP is simply because I made the decision to go there, and I don't want to find out that I made the wrong decision.

This is why I always ask for supporting information for any of the claims made about COMP - good or bad. I want to be able to decide if the information presented is biased, or straight up truth.

And Slick, if you are serious about applying, PM me when you get close to it. I'd be glad to give you any info I can.

If you get in and decide to go, I'd be the first to welcome you to the school.

Best,

- Tae

What I honestly find totally shocking is that the idea that COMP giving people the boot is that scandalous. Every MD and DO school in the country looses people from their classes EVERY year. My dad is on faculty at UTMB in Galveston, TX (MD school) and he told me that the Class of 2004 lost 18 after the first year, the Class of 2005 lost 15 and the the Class of 2006 will probably loose 16 or so. I'm sure others could chime in with the numbers their school lost as well. As a matter of fact, there's a thread about this general topic in the MD section on SDN.

Frankly, all this COMP bashing is getting a little boring. Why do you annoymously post this crap on a public forum instead of doing something proactive at the school? I don't know what academia fantasy world you've been living in, but all schools have some amount of controversy and bad press. At my undergrad (Boston U) there was literally a scathing article about the school/the president/the faculty/the budget in both The Globe and The Herald on a daily basis. SO what. I think if you do the work it'll all be good.

Just my opinion.

Originally posted by Elysium
At my undergrad (Boston U) there was literally a scathing article about the school/the president/the faculty/the budget in both The Globe and The Herald on a daily basis.

Click to expand...

"They call him Silber, Silber, cranky and frightening,
No-one you see, is president emeritus as he,
And we know Silber, sits on the board of plunder,
Says the front-page, front-page of the Freep!"


You'd have to be a local to get it ...

- Tae, with apologies to my favorite TV dolphin

Originally posted by Slickness
Thanks for the help. Actually, I'm applying right now and COMP is my first choice for DO schools. It's just so sad to see so many bad posts about them.

Click to expand...

Eh - we all stick together and watch each other's backs and we'll get through it fine.

- Tae

Slickness,
To be frank, go ahead and apply to COMP with the rest of your schools. If it is your first choice, definitely do more research into what's been presented and talk to as many students here and others in the community when you get the chance. In the best case scenario, you should be confident and happy about being accepted into your first-choice school if it does end up becoming COMP. I'm sure you've noticed that for the small handful of people that seem to be doing the most complaining and making the most noise about COMP, there are plenty of people who have positive things to say about the school. It's unfortunate that they choose to use SDN as a forum to ostentatiously publicize negative comments about the school, but there's nothing you can really do about it except wonder 1) what their motives are and 2) why they choose to remain anonymous.

Regardless of the legitimacy of their complaints, I think it would be just as easy for a student dismissed from any other medical school in the U.S. to join SDN and start posting negative comments about their school. Looking at the nature of these posts, perhaps you could get a sense for the type of character/personality someone might have to anonymously and intentionally post against a school they are/were once associated with.

As far as the 17 people, that number seems to be thrown around a lot so perhaps it is valid. I don't know what the circumstances behind most of these are and whether or not any were given the option to redo the first year again. Our class (DO 2005) lost at least 15 people our first year and I'm sure that quite a few applicants of COMP already have heard these stats from someone else at one point or another. Like a previous poster mentioned, there are people in every school who will end up not continuing onto the next year of med school for various reasons. Regardless of conditions, we try to do what we can to help others, help everyone stick together and make it through.

Slickness,
I think classes range from year to year and interaction between the MS-I and MS-II classes also vary. I know our class really tried to help out the first years with advice/tutoring/etc. and I'm sure that class will help out the incoming class of 2007 just as enthusiastically. Classes do seem a bit shaky in the first semester of the first year because everyone is trying to keep up with the material, but after awhile, we all see how much helping each other out seems to benefit the majority as a whole.

I can definitely say that through the various problems we've had at the school, we've come out a better group and along the way, quite a few of us have tried to improve and work on things which can range anywhere from trying to get another foosball table or copy machine in the commons area to improving communications concerning test question challenges, etc. Previous classes as well as ours have had pretty low points in our two years on campus, but we pull together and I'm sure future classes will do the same.

As far as being close-knit, that is a more difficult question to answer because invariably, each class will have its own little social groups, but we generally do support each other in some shape or form whether it is emailing out notes/study aids to winning our canned food drive. (Well, the reward of an ice cream party DID seem to help our cause there...)

Slickness,
Well, I certainly know how you feel as one of the reasons I too applied to COMP was because it was fairly close to where I was living here in southern California. (Being close to friends and family makes a huge difference as well!) I suppose it is fortunate that you still have plenty of time to evaluate your options and when it comes down to winter/spring, reassess your top choices and go from there. Just know that we'll be around in case you have any more concerns.. or if you're just wondering how things are going for the first year class.

Lanny Hsu
OMS-III

its so funny. i use to be here writing bad things about COMP and how they kick out too many students. But you know what? It was because I wanted to vent my frustration because I was afraid that if they kick others out, oh crap, I could be next. But really, they wont kick you out unless you can't hack it.

After recently taking the boards, and after 2 years, do you know what i really think? It was probably a good thing that students were kicked out during year 1. They probably would have gotten kicked out eventually, going through 2nd year, and would have had a heck of a time passing that COMLEX, it was a beast. And although I know this hurts feelings, but i would not want some of those students representing my school, rotating with other schools, and ultimately representing me, my degree, and my school. They would get circles danced around them from other students, and thats not what you want representing your school.

so if you've been a "wishwashy" student most of your life, and probably can't hack medicine, applying to COMP would do a disservice to you in the long run, and to COMP also. But if you're a solid student, serious, and study hard, you won't have much to worry about.

Since it is inevitable that the word has been getting out about COMP's reputation, I might as well share how many of us feel about the situation. If you do go back to all the posts about COMP, you will notice that we started 2 really long threads from the DO Class of 2005. Browsing back to those threads, I have seen the transformation from "happy enthusiastic med students" to "why did I come here, are we in Kansas anymore" attitudes. True, there are many threads about COMP, many dealing with the same issues over and over and over again. Some may be exaggerated, and others closer to the truth. The fact of the matter is, that with all this publicity, COMP will surely get a "bad wrap". As a 1st year med student 2 years ago, I actively answered many and all the questions incoming students had as they toured the campus. The attitudes ranged from "I love this school because so and so said this about it..." to "I wouldn't come here unless this is the only school I get accepted to..." This year, I noticed the same attitude for the prospective 2007 students. It is unfortunate to hear that a school I will be graduating from is getting a bad reputation. Colleagues and classmates alike are just hoping to get through all this, mostly remaining quiet and hoping things will get better. Our class in general appears to ignore the current issues because many of us are used to all the issues/drama at COMP that we have had to endure. To us, it's just another routine. Is there an advantage to all this? Maybe. If any premeds do consider applying here ask yourself a few questions. Do you consider yourself a strong person? a go getter? an independent learner? If you answered yes to all these questions, then these issues shouldn't even concern you because you'll do just fine here at COMP. This school is definitely not for the weak at heart. You will get worked. You will get tired. You may even complain. But the bottom line, when you've gone through it all, you will still be a DO!

Some of you might be concerned about COMP's future. I can't really answer that question for you...even I myself do not know anything for sure. What I do know is that COMP, the dean and it's faculty, are working very hard to make COMP a better place for both themselves and the students. I'm not hear to convince you all to apply to COMP, b/c as I said earlier, this school is not for everyone. I'm just here to relieve the tension and "exaggerated rumors" that may be spreading on these message boards. I can't necessarily blame the posters for posting all these negative comments about COMP, I just hope they channel that energy into improving COMP in any way that they can. As for all my colleagues out there, the best that we can do now is show them that we're competent, capable, and caring student physicians as we rotate from one hospital to the next. Peace.

Rob C.
OMS-III
College of Osteopathic Medicine of the Pacific

P.S. If there are any questions any of you may not feel comfortable in asking on this public forum, just PM me and I can answer them for you.