Jefferson versus Temple

Something that made me re-think applying to Temple is the fact that almost 2/3 of its students are from in state, if I read this correctly...I, obviously, am not a Pennsylvania resident. Just something to keep in mind.

that jeff LOR req, dont worry about it. i had two of those 4, and i am interviewing there in october. as far as the two schools, i couldn't comment on which of the two is harder to get into, but jeff does fill a HUGE class, ~230 (some are set asides for delaware residents/BA-MD/etc) i think they might be roughly equal caliber, middle tier schools, with the major difference being jeff is in a super nice part of philly, and temple is a super ghetto part.

I think that the above people are swaying towards picking Jefferson if you can't do both. I would agree as well.

Originally posted by SolidGold
I think that the above people are swaying towards picking Jefferson if you can't do both. I would agree as well.

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Hi SolidGold,

I thought that you were really into wanting to go to Temple? (or is that your advice so that there's one less person applying to your school of choice? Just kidding! Good luck with becoming an Owl this year. )

Something that made me re-think applying to Temple is the fact that almost 2/3 of its students are from in state, if I read this correctly...I, obviously, am not a Pennsylvania resident.

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I heard that this year was unusual because they had committed too early to the instaters due to the AMCAS fiasco. So next year shouldn't be the same as 2002.

Hi Tweetie_bird,
Both schools have great reps. In Philladelphia, Temple is considered the best school (with the exception of Penn, of course).

But regarding medicine, they're both great and you probably have an equal shot at either one. I've heard that what makes Temple's location not as desirable also makes the clinical experience at Temple hospital excellent (one of the best hospitals in the city).

Good luck with your decision!

Correct me if Im wrong but isnt Jeff on the latest edition of the all mighty US News top 50 rankings for the first time? If they are they might be interested in maintaing their rank and boosting the stats of the accepted students, so that may favor your applying to Temple, tweetiebird.

Originally posted by scootad.
Correct me if Im wrong but isnt Jeff on the latest edition of the all mighty US News top 50 rankings for the first time? If they are they might be interested in maintaing their rank and boosting the stats of the accepted students, so that may favor your applying to Temple, tweetiebird.

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It's not like Jeff is a Top Ten school. I doubt because they made the "all mighty" (good choice of words ! ) list that they'd alter their admissions practices that radically in one year's time. Or they could...but if they did, then they'd be pricks and it's not like they have some "all mighty" name like Stanford or Duke. (no offense to those attending Jeff )

I'd just pick whichever school you think fits you best. I know that I'll get flamed for this, but when it comes to MD schools, if they're not in the big Ivy League/Top 10 category, it doesn't make much of a difference in your career.

Hi Lady MD, actually, I really did want to go to Temple, but that was for the last application cycle. I was on the alternate list there last year (over the summer), so it was one of the schools that was actually considering me last year. Needless to say, I did not get in off the waitlist, but it is still a school I would like to go to and I am reapplying there.

Jefferson is a ranked school and Temple is not, but I don't think that either one is necessarily "easier" to get into. According to the latest MSAR, the average stats of matriculating students are quite similar. For an out of state applicant though, Jefferson might be the better choice.

Tweetie_bird, I know that money is a problem and I understand because I was in the same position last year (I did not send secondaries to 8 schools because of a lack of funds last year), but I would really try to apply to both schools just to increase your chances. Just a thought from another reapplicant. Good luck!

One more thing about the LOR's for Jefferson, they are flexible with the requirements. I had all biochem teachers send me letters and the office of admissions said it was fine and my application was completed.

Originally posted by scootad.
Correct me if Im wrong but isnt Jeff on the latest edition of the all mighty US News top 50 rankings for the first time? If they are they might be interested in maintaing their rank and boosting the stats of the accepted students, so that may favor your applying to Temple, tweetiebird.

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ahem. Jefferson WAS in the Top 10 in the 1980's, then they changed the ranking system, and it put Jefferson in the outer 50 (probably more accurate, from what i've heard from some 3rd years there.)
I think it's one of the only schools with no curve in the 1st & 2nd years, supposedly creating a higher drop-out rate/1st year retake rate.

For the extra 100 bucks, apply to both. You won't look back a year from now and regret it.

As has already been mentioned, neither school is an "easy" one to get into. HOWEVER, both schools give you an advantage because they both have a "HUGE CLASS SIZE!!" . I pasted a post from the ""Easy" schools" thread (see directly below).

Not only do both schools fit into point #3 below, but Jefferson has the added benefit of fitting into #4 as well (their name is not as nationally known as the Temple name, so they probably don't get as many applicants.)

But I'd consider borrowing an extra 100 bucks and applying to both.
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A school can have higher admission standards and still be "easier" to get into than a school with lower admission standards. (Dartmouth may have a lower acceptance rate than Yale, even though Yale may have higher admission standards and is higher ranked. One reason would be that Dartmouth doesn't support as many students).

There are several factors that make it "easier" to get into med school:

1) If a student qualifies for special consideration (such as minorities ...)

2) If the school's admission requirements are not as high as others (including Caribbean schools, Osteopathic schools ...).

3) If the school's student body is large in number and doesn't have to turn away as many applicants.

4) If the school isn't extremely well-known, so there are less applicants.

The 1st category applies to 95% of medical schools in the U.S. in having Affirmative Action, etc....

But some of the schools mentioned in this thread (Wisconsin, Temple, Ohio State, Saint Louis) fall into one of the last 2 categories.

ex: Temple is huge and therefore, doesn't have to turn down as many students because of its student body size...not because of its admission standards.

ex: Saint Louis isn't as widely known as, say, UCLA, so not as many students apply there and consequently, Saint Louis doesn't turn down nearly as many.

But as has already been stated several times. If you're getting an MD from any school in the United States, then you're not going to find any "easy" route; because there is none.
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I've heard that jefferson is not a good "safety school" as many consider it to be. Their numbers for out of state acceptances are deceiving because they accept a bunch of people from feeder programs like post-bac or what not that have special linkages with them. Tweetie, i know ppl that applied last year with higher stats than you and were outright rejected from jefferson. Of course, that doesn't say that someone with lower stats would necessarily be rejected....you just never know. However, I think the odds might be a little better for temple for an out-of-stater.

Originally posted by SolidGold
One more thing about the LOR's for Jefferson, they are flexible with the requirements. I had all biochem teachers send me letters and the office of admissions said it was fine and my application was completed.

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I too got the reqs waived by Jeff. I used my standard combo of graduate advisor, PI, old psych prof from UG, and a volunteer person. The only school that this isn't working for is MCW.

Yeah, I had the same problem with MCW, I just ended up getting another undergrad professor to write a letter for them. They said that they need to have it this way because they like to be "intelligent" about LOR's, but I think that a LOR is a LOR, and the most recent ones would be best, ie. grad LOR's, but they want at least 2 UG LOR's. Not too "intelligent" to me.

Originally posted by SolidGold
Yeah, I had the same problem with MCW, I just ended up getting another undergrad professor to write a letter for them. They said that they need to have it this way because they like to be "intelligent" about LOR's, but I think that a LOR is a LOR, and the most recent ones would be best, ie. grad LOR's, but they want at least 2 UG LOR's. Not too "intelligent" to me.

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I talked to the director of admissions and told him that the requirement is "silly." He just explained that I could petition it and get delayed, or get one and move on. Today I got the extra LOR.

I say fill out the Temple secondary!

Some things to consider: Temple has a larger incoming class each year than Jefferson does. The out-of-state tuition is not much higher than in-state (though, that's because they are both high). Also, the average GPA and MCAT is lower for Temple than for Jefferson. Although they do accept mostly in-state applicants, it is not that big of a ratio - 60% vs 40%. They evaluate in-state applicants first, as well, and haven't started interviewing out-of-staters, so if you send in your app now, you won't be at a disadvantage (compared to other out-of-staters. Unfortunately, Temple is not known for giving great need-based financial aide. Of course, if you have the cash, apply to both schools.

If the application was daunting, I would feel otherwise, but just suck it up and apply to both. It is not horribly expensive, both are middle/lower tier schools, and the apps are easy. You could do them in a couple of hours. I know that you are applying to a bunch of schools, but finish both. I have similar stats and am tired of filling out these secondaries too, but I DO NOT WANT TO HAVE TO DO THIS AGAIN!

Originally posted by CaNEM
Some things to consider: Temple has a larger incoming class each year than Jefferson does [...] MCAT is lower for Temple than for Jefferson.

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No, that's not true. I copied the USNEWS statistics on Jefferson last year and their MCAT average was only 29.2. Temple's was 31 + something.


(In case anyone's wondering, Jefferson's total number of students in their School of Medicine was 895.)

Originally posted by CaNEM
Unfortunately, Temple is not known for giving great need-based financial aide. Of course, if you have the cash, apply to both schools.

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This just came to mind. I wonder if that's true since their hospital requires millions of dollars that the serviced community (being mostly poor inner-city) cannot afford to pay. Therefore, their hospital loses millions of dollars every year. While this is probably made up by the Tax Payers, it doesn't help Temple accumulate a lot of funds for their med student tuition. Despite that, I've heard their facilities are top-of-the-line.

(Sounds like the U.S. tax dollars will pay for facilities, but won't go towards medical scholarships?)

Originally posted by Tweetie_bird
what is the MCW requirement anyway? I have a feeling I might be in trouble too.

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MCW wants at least two ungrad science LOR's and a non-science, and if you have done any graduate work, they want at least one grad LOR. This is the only school that I applied to that seems to really be strict with this.

Also, I applied to 32 schools but I already sent all of the secondaries out, I had to take out a loan to do it though.

Originally posted by Lady MD
(Sounds like the U.S. tax dollars will pay for facilities, but won't go towards medical scholarships?)

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To play devil's advocate, why should they? If you have funds for hospitals or for medical scholarships, wouldn't you choose hospitals for the greater good? Med students can get student loans, which they'll be more than able to pay back (and if you work in underserved areas, you can get assistance to pay them back)...

-RA

I'm going to sound really cynical, but that's probably why Temple hasn't broken into the US News rank.

They have an excellent reputation as a hands-on med school with the best experience you could ask for during rotations with seeing one of the highest turnover of trauma cases than most schools in the country.

They have a great curric with mixing both traditional and organ-based systems.

But they probably don't have the "mula" to pay off the writers at US News.

OK, maybe there aren't blatant bribes to get ranked, but I'm sure there are fringe benefits involved.

Originally posted by Lady MD
Jefferson last year and their MCAT average was only 29.2. [...]

While this is probably made up by the Tax Payers, it doesn't help Temple accumulate a lot of funds for their med student tuition. Despite that, I've heard their facilities are top-of-the-line.

(Sounds like the U.S. tax dollars will pay for facilities, but won't go towards medical scholarships?)

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plus, the school has to be ACCOMODATING to those rankings from US News. I know my undergrad didn't submit data to them a few years before i matriculated, but once they did we were magically a top 20 school. Tulane isn't on the top 50 list of the US News cause they dont report, but other reports and general consensus with docs i know from work have tulane as a top 25-30 school

the financial situations at temple versus jeff actually are not very different. both schools, according to the philadelphia inquirer, are actually bordering being in the red financially, and rely on state subsidies to some degree. actually, the only medical school in the black financially in the area is, suprise suprise, Drexel, due to the Tenet purchase.

Originally posted by Tweetie_bird
are you saying I shouldn't do drexel secondary?

Between Jefferson, Drexel and Temple, which would you choose and why?

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i think i might have jargoned you into confusion. "in the red" means an institution is not making enough money to cover its costs (debt), "in the black" means they're making a profit.

due to the high HMO market penetrance in philadelphia area healthcare during the late 90s, plus the apparently exorbitant malpractice costs and lack of tort reform, the med schools/teaching hospitals (jeff, temple, and affliates) have been getting hit particularly hard. Drexel med, once part of the AHERF chapter 11 bankruptcy filing in 1998, was bought out with all the rest of AHERF's assets by California based healthcare magnate Tenet. So, in relative terms the artist formerly known as MCP Hannehmann might actually be in the BEST shape financially out of all these schools.

they're all great schools in my opinion. if you can hack it, apply to all of them

DW, would you post a reference as to where you are getting the financial information on Jeff and Temple?

I go to Jefferson...my class has 234, a fairly large # of us are from out of state, although I can't really tell you more specifically then that. From everything I've heard, when ranking philly schools, Jeff comes right after Penn (though from listening to some of our profs talk, you'd think we were the best school in the world ). I interviewed at Temple very late because I am an out of stater, while Jeff didn't hold it against me. Nothing else I can think of to share. If you want any more info, let me know.

Tweetie_bird

Temple and Jefferson are fine institutions. Go for both!

Jefferson is ranked and is known in circles of medicine, but Temple's name is nationally recognized and has a better reputation.

You can't go wrong with either one.

bumped for YB...