Crnas won’t work 7-5 (4 days a week) for 350k all Fridays off 1099 8 weeks off

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aneftp

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Gonna love my crnas. And no. I’m not taking any DMs on this. I can’t find any crnas willing to work Monday -Thursday 1099 guarantee with 8 weeks off for 350k. It’s truly bread and butter. No peds. Docs cover very light ob.

All my crna friends just want to be prn 1099.

So crnas just want their cake and eat it also

They want
1. Money
2. Pick their schedule work when they want

The hustling crnas I know make 500k and up 1099 so aren’t interested in this 350k job. They want to do 24 hr 1099 than roll and make more money.

The mommy crnas don’t want a rigid 4 day a week job.

So 350k is the no man’s slot for crnas

Just like 450k is the no man’s slot for docs.
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Same story here, when the locums market is so hot you either get the ones who want to work like dogs and clear 600+ (I know one who made >700 working 65+ hrs) or ones who want to pick up shifts to their convenience. Big picture I think the solution is CAAs as the CRNAs successfully price themselves out.
 
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aneftp said:
Gonna love my crnas. And no. I’m not taking any DMs on this. I can’t find any crnas willing to work Monday -Thursday 1099 guarantee with 8 weeks off for 350k. It’s truly bread and butter. No peds. Docs cover very light ob.

All my crna friends just want to be prn 1099.

So crnas just want their cake and eat it also

They want
1. Money
2. Pick their schedule work when they want

The hustling crnas I know make 500k and up 1099 so aren’t interested in this 350k job. They want to do 24 hr 1099 than roll and make more money.

The mommy crnas don’t want a rigid 4 day a week job.

So 350k is the no man’s slot for crnas

Just like 450k is the no man’s slot for docs.
Click to expand...

Not only that...now they demand which rooms they cover....eg chill long robot and plastics cases and pretty much nothing else.
 
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CubsDynasty said:
Same story here, when the locums market is so hot you either get the ones who want to work like dogs and clear 600+ (I know one who made >700 working 65+ hrs) or ones who want to pick up shifts to their convenience. Big picture I think the solution is CAAs as the CRNAs successfully price themselves out.
Click to expand...
What rates are CRNAs getting? I’ve seen low 200s/hr
 
450k is no man’s a lot for like an average work hour job? What is the average work hour job
 
It's the market...it's like private practice groups still paying 450/500k for 3-4/calls a month in some grind eat-what-you-kill model that didn't ask for stipends. The crnas around me are getting 200-250/hr. One of my friends in an eat what you kill private practice model has a cousin who is a CRNA who is making more than him. Yes she works more, but also has control over her schedule.
No one will take a full time position where they can't make their own schedule, take a month off at will and go to another country. Can you blame them, I wouldn't in this environment. Every single hospital in my area is paying travel crnas and they can come, work hard, then have 12-14 weeks of vacation whenever they want. The local ones pick up shifts, never take night call, demand to be out by 5.

It's like one consultant when I was in a PP group had said: if you can't give away a shift, if you can't staff a site, your numbers are wrong and if you wait long enough the system will look elsewhere
 
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Maverikk said:
It's the market...it's like private practice groups still paying 450/500k for 3-4/calls a month in some grind eat-what-you-kill model that didn't ask for stipends. The crnas around me are getting 200-250/hr. One of my friends in an eat what you kill private practice model has a cousin who is a CRNA who is making more than him. Yes she works more, but also has control over her schedule.
No one will take a full time position where they can't make their own schedule, take a month off at will and go to another country. Can you blame them, I wouldn't in this environment. Every single hospital in my area is paying travel crnas and they can come, work hard, then have 12-14 weeks of vacation whenever they want. The local ones pick up shifts, never take night call, demand to be out by 5.

It's like one consultant when I was in a PP group had said: if you can't give away a shift, if you can't staff a site, your numbers are wrong and if you wait long enough the system will look elsewhere
Click to expand...
Control over their own schedule is the key.

That’s what everyone is after. Once MDs figure this out. It’s game over for hospitals admin

The compromise is giving anesthesiologist massive 18-20 weeks off for 1.0 fte

That’s why even paying 650-700k but with 8-10 weeks off for docs w2 q4/5 call schedule 45-48 hrs a week may not even suffice any more.

I’d take 450-500k with 20 weeks off working 45 hr a week. Why? Because I can CHOOSE to work those 10 extra vacation weeks to make up the 150-250k via locums 1099. Or I can choose to just take vacation all 20 weeks.

This is the way of the future my friends.

Crnas have figured it out
 
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caligas said:
Look on Gaswork, MANY jobs over $500k w2 plus benefits. And Gaswork doesn’t have the best jobs.
Click to expand...
People do not want to work more than 15-16 total days a month per 30 day month

That’s what I’m finding out.

Surgery center can’t fill full time MD position for 450k/40 hrs. Surgery center must be finished by 2pm most days for that to happen. It’s not happening. They run 630a-430-/5pm most days making it 50 hr work weeks. Thus no full time doc wants to take it.

Count how many days you work a month

If you are working more than 15/16 total days for 450/500k plus no less than 10 weeks off. It may not be a good job anymore.
Crnas have figured this out.

Why can’t docs?
 
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Hah, I'd love to have that payday. 350k minus all the crap for 80% FTE? I'm in.
 
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aneftp said:
People do not want to work more than 15-16 total days a month per 30 day month

That’s what I’m finding out.

Surgery center can’t fill full time MD position for 450k/40 hrs. Surgery center must be finished by 2pm most days for that to happen. It’s not happening. They run 630a-430-/5pm most days making it 50 hr work weeks. Thus no full time doc wants to take it.

Count how many days you work a month

If you are working more than 15/16 total days for 450/500k plus no less than 10 weeks off. It may not be a good job anymore.
Crnas have figured this out.

Why can’t docs?
Click to expand...
Is that surgery center paying overtime then? Cause I can understand why nobody wants a job where they get paid 450k for 40 hours and but really work 50 hours with no extra pay.
 
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MirrorTodd said:
Is that surgery center paying overtime then? Cause I can understand why nobody wants a job where they get paid 450k for 40 hours and but really work 50 hours with no extra pay.
Click to expand...
1. No one wants to show up 5 days a week to work these days unless they are guaranteed to get out by 230p each day. These are the cold hard facts.

Very few surgery centers finish by 230p

2. Yes they will pay extra like 525k if u want to work 5 days /50 hrs or 4 days /40 hrs /450k plus 8 weeks paid off.

ain’t no one taking that job.

Do people not understand the dynamics these days

People want their time off. 7-8 (24) hrs a month

Or some hybrid 15-16 total days worked each month plus time off
 
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aneftp said:
1. No one wants to show up 5 days a week to work these days unless they are guaranteed to get out by 230p each day. These are the cold hard facts.

Very few surgery centers finish by 230p

2. Yes they will pay extra like 525k if u want to work 5 days /50 hrs or 4 days /40 hrs /450k plus 8 weeks paid off.

ain’t no one taking that job.

Do people not understand the dynamics these days

People want their time off. 7-8 (24) hrs a month

Or some hybrid 15-16 total days worked each month plus time off
Click to expand...
That's approx $238/hr. Is that surgery center really willing to value anesthesiologist's time and expertise so low? Are there other benefits to the job or is it strictly 1099? I still hungry, especially as I'm getting out of the military in about one year so you're statement that no one wants to show up blah blah blah is just false. What I do want is to be appropriately paid for the time that I am giving. How much is the surgery center paying locums companies for the hourly work that is hired out? Pay me 75% of that and I'll be very happy.
 
MirrorTodd said:
That's approx $238/hr. Is that surgery center really willing to value anesthesiologist's time and expertise so low? Are there other benefits to the job or is it strictly 1099? I still hungry, especially as I'm getting out of the military in about one year so you're statement that no one wants to show up blah blah blah is just false. What I do want is to be appropriately paid for the time that I am giving. How much is the surgery center paying locums companies for the hourly work that is hired out? Pay me 75% of that and I'll be very happy.
Click to expand...
Free commercial healthcare zero deductible Aetna United blue cross nationwide dental
28k into retirement (1 year vesting)

Up to 70k pretax deductions into retirement

And no one wants it.

That’s like a 60k benefits package no calls and no weekends. 1:2 or 1:4 some days. Not all days.
 
aneftp said:
Free commercial healthcare zero deductible Aetna United blue cross nationwide dental
28k into retirement (1 year vesting)

Up to 70k pretax deductions into retirement

And no one wants it.

That’s like a 60k benefits package no calls and no weekends. 1:2 or 1:4 some days. Not all days.
Click to expand...
In Seattle area? Wife and I are thinking of moving up there after the Army.
 
Or for $400K in a small town working about 30 hours a week. They got rid of them and are now bringing in docs for 500K. A little reliable birdie told me this who’s staffing the hospital. People are greedy.
 
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makemoney2024 said:
Or for $400K in a small town working about 30 hours a week. They got rid of them and are now bringing in docs for 500K. A little reliable birdie told me this who’s staffing the hospital. People are greedy.
Click to expand...
Crnas are pulling 51k for the week also locums are small hospitals
$300/hr x 168 hours light duty putting in 5-7 epidurals for entire week.

But the hospital won’t use docs due to the Medicare pass through. I told them I would do it for 45k. lol.

All scams and games these days.

Page 31 in the AANA game

 
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aneftp said:
Crnas are pulling 51k for the week also locums are small hospitals
$300/hr x 168 hours light duty putting in 5-7 epidurals for entire week.

But the hospital won’t use docs due to the Medicare pass through. I told them I would do it for 45k. lol.

All scams and games these days.

Page 31 in the AANA game

Click to expand...
Yeah yeah. We all know about pass thru and all your gold mining you love to brag about on planet Mars. Don’t worry. I am hurrying off your red lawn.
 
aneftp said:
Crnas are pulling 51k for the week also locums are small hospitals
$300/hr x 168 hours light duty putting in 5-7 epidurals for entire week.

But the hospital won’t use docs due to the Medicare pass through. I told them I would do it for 45k. lol.

All scams and games these days.

Page 31 in the AANA game

Click to expand...
What’s the Medicare pass through? Is there and incentive for them to use Crnas over doctors
 
amyl said:
What’s the Medicare pass through? Is there and incentive for them to use Crnas over doctors
Click to expand...

“Under the “pass-through” program, eligible hospitals may use reasonable-costs based Part A payments in lieu of the conventional Part B payments as a rural practice inducement for… nurse anesthetists to practice in small, low volume rural hospitals.” In other words, crna’s get to bill more than anesthesiologists to work in rural hospitals.

It’s a demonstration of crna hypocrisy that they lobby against doctors getting pass-through. It creates a huge financial incentive for rural hospitals to use solo-crnas and not hire doctors. Then, CRNAs love to make claims about how they’re the only ‘provider’ in X% of rural hospitals, which is only true because of a misguided exclusion of docs from pass-through payments.
 
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triggermaster said:
“Under the “pass-through” program, eligible hospitals may use reasonable-costs based Part A payments in lieu of the conventional Part B payments as a rural practice inducement for… nurse anesthetists to practice in small, low volume rural hospitals.” In other words, crna’s get to bill more than anesthesiologists to work in rural hospitals.

It’s a demonstration of crna hypocrisy that they lobby against doctors getting pass-through. It creates a huge financial incentive for rural hospitals to use solo-crnas and not hire doctors. Then, CRNAs love to make claims about how they’re the only ‘provider’ in X% of rural hospitals, which is only true because of a misguided exclusion of docs from pass-through payments.
Click to expand...

In other words.. CRNA want lower quality care in rural areas because it means more money for them. Wonder how they lobby against having physicians involved. AANA must be using wizard level gaslighting on the public and politicians.
 
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triggermaster said:
“Under the “pass-through” program, eligible hospitals may use reasonable-costs based Part A payments in lieu of the conventional Part B payments as a rural practice inducement for… nurse anesthetists to practice in small, low volume rural hospitals.” In other words, crna’s get to bill more than anesthesiologists to work in rural hospitals.

It’s a demonstration of crna hypocrisy that they lobby against doctors getting pass-through. It creates a huge financial incentive for rural hospitals to use solo-crnas and not hire doctors. Then, CRNAs love to make claims about how they’re the only ‘provider’ in X% of rural hospitals, which is only true because of a misguided exclusion of docs from pass-through payments.
Click to expand...
Wow thanks for that info- I didn’t realize that… I guess this is in opt out states only?
 

amyl said:
Wow thanks for that info- I didn’t realize that… I guess this is in opt out states only?
Click to expand...
No. It’s in rural hospital areas. Doesn’t matter the state

Some parts of east Texas qualify as rural.
 
aneftp said:
Crnas are pulling 51k for the week also locums are small hospitals
$300/hr x 168 hours light duty putting in 5-7 epidurals for entire week.

But the hospital won’t use docs due to the Medicare pass through. I told them I would do it for 45k. lol.

All scams and games these days.

Page 31 in the AANA game

Click to expand...


In order to qualify for “pass through” rural hospitals cannot have case volumes >800/year and the amount of money involved is “tens of thousands” per hospital per year. Doesn’t seem like that program has a big impact.

IMG_1646.jpeg
 
nimbus said:
In order to qualify for “pass through” rural hospitals cannot have case volumes >800/year and the amount of money involved is “tens of thousands” per hospital per year. Doesn’t seem like that program has a big impact.

View attachment 386790
Click to expand...
On call is where the money ball is. That's what I keep telling you guys. Who wants to work 7-5 daily grind. When you can bill continuously for 24 hours "on call". that's where the Crna is making 50K a week locums.

We are getting into unchartered terrority with anesthesia with how "providers" want to be paid.

Couple of my surgeon friends are slowly warming up to raping hospital systems over "on call" services as well. Surgeons have tons of unreimbursed "time" on the clock. Hospitals count on these unreimbursed "on call" services.
 
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aneftp said:
On call is where the money ball is. That's what I keep telling you guys. Who wants to work 7-5 daily grind. When you can bill continuously for 24 hours "on call". that's where the Crna is making 50K a week locums.

We are getting into unchartered terrority with anesthesia with how "providers" want to be paid.

Couple of my surgeon friends are slowly warming up to raping hospital systems over "on call" services as well. Surgeons have tons of unreimbursed "time" on the clock. Hospitals count on these unreimbursed "on call" services.
Click to expand...
How are these CRNAs getting the hospital to pay them per hour for 24 hours to sit at home? And you apparently??
 
nimbus said:
In order to qualify for “pass through” rural hospitals cannot have case volumes >800/year and the amount of money involved is “tens of thousands” per hospital per year. Doesn’t seem like that program has a big impact.

View attachment 386790
Click to expand...
It seems to me that the “tens of thousands” is only the on call or standby services. Not the actual money that the hospital gets automatically for CRNAs. It reads to me that the hospital is on the hook for the on call or standby services or they just don’t pay extra for that
 
makemoney2024 said:
It seems to me that the “tens of thousands” is only the on call or standby services. Not the actual money that the hospital gets automatically for CRNAs. It reads to me that the hospital is on the hook for the on call or standby services or they just don’t pay extra for that
Click to expand...


Agree. The hospital gets some extra money to use a CRNA instead of an anesthesiologist. But the amount is only a small fraction of what is needed cover an entire FTE or a call stipend for an anesthesiologist or a CRNA. Especially at a low volume facility.
 
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nimbus said:
Agree. The hospital gets some extra money to use a CRNA instead of an anesthesiologist. But the amount is only a small fraction of what is needed cover an entire FTE or a call stipend for an anesthesiologist or a CRNA. Especially at a low volume facility.
Click to expand...
Hospitals will pay what they need to pay. When backed into the wall.
makemoney2024 said:
How are these CRNAs getting the hospital to pay them per hour for 24 hours to sit at home? And you apparently??
Click to expand...

No one is sitting at “home”. These are outliers jobs where people can’t be at home. They can be at the hotel/air b n b

It’s all about supply and demand. You shoot your shot. Tell them what you want. Remember you miss 100% of the shots you don’t take. Ask for it. They can say no. You move on to the next project.

Either they can pay me $200/hr beeper rate plus $450/hr call back or pay me continuously $400/hr Their choice. That’s either 10k guaranteed basically or they risk potentially paying me 12-14k for the 24 hr call. Each 24 hr weekends I’m away from home is worth easily $7k at min per 24 hr regardless if I’m working or not work. If I can’t go home. I’m gonna to charge them.

I’m telling recruiters for the summer I want 70k for the week now. Is it outrageous ? Maybe. Maybe not. I shoot my shot. What is the worst they can say to you? No? I move on. That’s $416/hr x 168 hours. It’s not far fetch. Those old timers pre 80 hr work week routinely did 120-130
Hrs of Or work in residency. Of course it’s different when you are a 27-30 year old working like that vs a 50 something year old.

I want to remind people these jobs come and go. Everyone is chasing. It slows down. They can cancel on you in 30 days. I actually just had assignment cancel on me for this weekend. That’s 10k for call. No biggie. I’m a big boy. One of their full timers asked for the call back (they get paid extra also at $7k w2). I’m not gonna to fight it. I could if I wanted to. We all game the system when the opportunity knocks.
 
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There is a reason why healthcare is so expensive. Now nurses won't work for 200/hr.
 
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I agree
GassYous said:
No...healthcare is expensive because of all the profit oriented middlemen (billers, insurance, etc)
Click to expand...
I agree but I never thought I would see the day that it would be hard to find nurses to work for 200/hr. I wonder why there would not be CRNA schools popping up everywhere with such a shortage.
 
emergentmd said:
I agree

I agree but I never thought I would see the day that it would be hard to find nurses to work for 200/hr. I wonder why there would not be CRNA schools popping up everywhere with such a shortage.
Click to expand...
Because even the AANA knows not to over supply.

You want to keep it short for a while. Over supply leads to saturation of income.

Think about how w2 docs and w2 crnas game the system during short staffing. They have built in overtime these days. My friends place the crna make 100k plus in overtime. The docs used to make 200k in overtime. They managed to recruit more docs. So now the docs make only 30-40k extra in overtime. They actually hate it. More docs in practice dilute the overtime. They used locums docs to work the longer daytime work. Now the company got rid of locums docs. And it’s actually worst for the full time docs

Vs crnas keep being short staff and now the full time crnas locums are pushing 150k in overtime!

Supppy and demand. Keep the demand up. Keeps the income up.

Thus don’t pump out more crnas. Keep the supply low.
 
aneftp said:
No. It’s in rural hospital areas. Doesn’t matter the state

Some parts of east Texas qualify as rural.
Click to expand...
I believe it's in critical access hospitals, specifically.
 
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aneftp said:
Hospitals will pay what they need to pay. When backed into the wall.


No one is sitting at “home”. These are outliers jobs where people can’t be at home. They can be at the hotel/air b n b

It’s all about supply and demand. You shoot your shot. Tell them what you want. Remember you miss 100% of the shots you don’t take. Ask for it. They can say no. You move on to the next project.

Either they can pay me $200/hr beeper rate plus $450/hr call back or pay me continuously $400/hr Their choice. That’s either 10k guaranteed basically or they risk potentially paying me 12-14k for the 24 hr call. Each 24 hr weekends I’m away from home is worth easily $7k at min per 24 hr regardless if I’m working or not work. If I can’t go home. I’m gonna to charge them.

I’m telling recruiters for the summer I want 70k for the week now. Is it outrageous ? Maybe. Maybe not. I shoot my shot. What is the worst they can say to you? No? I move on. That’s $416/hr x 168 hours. It’s not far fetch. Those old timers pre 80 hr work week routinely did 120-130
Hrs of Or work in residency. Of course it’s different when you are a 27-30 year old working like that vs a 50 something year old.

I want to remind people these jobs come and go. Everyone is chasing. It slows down. They can cancel on you in 30 days. I actually just had assignment cancel on me for this weekend. That’s 10k for call. No biggie. I’m a big boy. One of their full timers asked for the call back (they get paid extra also at $7k w2). I’m not gonna to fight it. I could if I wanted to. We all game the system when the opportunity knocks.
Click to expand...
Sitting at home meaning sitting in the hotel. Whatever. It’s not sitting inside the hospital. You can still do whatever as long as you aren’t drinking nor stray far away.
 
makemoney2024 said:
Sitting at home meaning sitting in the hotel. Whatever. It’s not sitting inside the hospital. You can still do whatever as long as you aren’t drinking nor stray far away.
Click to expand...
It’s a big difference. I have a 6000 sq foot home to chill at vs a 300-400 sq foot cheap hotel room.

I’m also missing kids activities. Thus it takes a premium for me to be away from home.

If u don’t have kids and or spouse. It won’t matter than.
 
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aneftp said:
It’s a big difference. I have a 6000 sq foot home to chill at vs a 300-400 sq foot cheap hotel room.

I’m also missing kids activities. Thus it takes a premium for me to be away from home.

If u don’t have kids and or spouse. It won’t matter than.
Click to expand...
Then. THEN. Not than. Than is used to compare different things.
Then is used as a time reference; as in before THEN after.
But thanks for the tip. My house is 1/3 your size and not a fan of kids. But that is good negotiating power.
 
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makemoney2024 said:
Then. THEN. Not than. Than is used to compare different things.
Then is used as a time reference; as in before THEN after.
But thanks for the tip. My house is 1/3 your size and not a fan of kids. But that is good negotiating power.
Click to expand...
Correct. Mentality is different when no kids or even spouses are involved. Even empty nesters have different working mentality. That’s why some people are tied to w2 jobs in big metro areas and suck it up. They need to be home for their kids most of the time.

Kids will cost u at least 75k a year (as anesthesiologist) in terms of lost pay/lost opportunities plus raising the kids/baby sitting /less opportunity to do extra work.

But to each their own. One of my other sisters is doc as well. I have multiple family members who are docs. But she has no kids. And her outlook is completely different than siblings with kids. Like she buys 18k couch from Italian place. And I buy $2000 couch from Ashley furniture cause kids mess it up quickly.
 
aneftp said:
Correct. Mentality is different when no kids or even spouses are involved. Even empty nesters have different working mentality. That’s why some people are tied to w2 jobs in big metro areas and suck it up. They need to be home for their kids most of the time.

Kids will cost u at least 75k a year (as anesthesiologist) in terms of lost pay/lost opportunities plus raising the kids/baby sitting /less opportunity to do extra work.

But to each their own. One of my other sisters is doc as well. I have multiple family members who are docs. But she has no kids. And her outlook is completely different than siblings with kids. Like she buys 18k couch from Italian place. And I buy $2000 couch from Ashley furniture cause kids mess it up quickly.
Click to expand...
What are you guys doing for your kids for $75K per year?
 
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makemoney2024 said:
What are you guys doing for your kids for $75K per year?
Click to expand...
It’s opportunity cost. My kid has some end of the year event this weekend. So I can’t be out of town doing locums. I gave it to another doc to cover. So it’s 10-20k opportunity cost I’m missing out on locums just this weekend.

20k into 529 each year

Travel cost doubles with kids. 2 plane tickets equals 4 plane tickets. A $7000 vacation turns into $14000

So what I mean by people with no kids have different mentality than people with kids.

Kids cost time and money. Something adults with no kids really won’t understand.
 
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aneftp said:
It’s opportunity cost. My kid has some end of the year event this weekend. So I can’t be out of town doing locums. I gave it to another doc to cover. So it’s 10-20k opportunity cost I’m missing out on locums just this weekend.

20k into 529 each year

Travel cost doubles with kids. 2 plane tickets equals 4 plane tickets. A $7000 vacation turns into $14000

So what I mean by people with no kids have different mentality than people with kids.

Kids cost time and money. Something adults with no kids really won’t understand.
Click to expand...
The difference is when one has no kids there is no need to constantly chase money on weekends off or on vacation for many of us. So opportunity cost may balance out. I got seven weeks of vacation coming up and have plenty of weekends where I am not necessarily itching to work.
 
aneftp said:
It’s a big difference. I have a 6000 sq foot home to chill at vs a 300-400 sq foot cheap hotel room.

I’m also missing kids activities. Thus it takes a premium for me to be away from home.

If u don’t have kids and or spouse. It won’t matter than.
Click to expand...
6000 sqft home?

Do you have 6+ kids?
 
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GassYous said:
Guest room, mother in law suite, movie room and you can barely move without bumping into each other
Click to expand...
3000 sqft won't do... You need 6000 sqft for that.
 
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Splenda88 said:
3000 sqft won't do... You need 6000 sqft for that.
Click to expand...
Rich people problems. Just like I listen to all the doctors complain about how much their architect is gonna cost as they gear up to build a 1Mil house. Or how expensive their vacations are getting.
Except here they aren’t complaining…yet.
I can’t imagine paying someone to clean that house nor the taxes on that house. One of our Doctor couples live in a 10k SF house with their five kids. They have a BasketBall court indoors though.
 
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