Deciding this month -- I'm either going to give up or go for it. Advice please?

[forwantofaphd]

[NOTE - this is a very old post that was bumped because I came back to say thank you]

The crossroads:

• Pursue a PhD in clinical psych or not.

My career goals:

• Something that offers a measure of structure, a measure of flexibility, good pay, and plays to my interests and skills.

Why might I want a PhD in clinical psych?:

• I want to do something that is both intellectually challenging and practically useful, especially useful to those in need.
• Counseling is a natural skill and passion.
• I'm a very good communicator and am skilled in creative and analytical problem-solving.
• Psychology itself is of great interest to me, and its careers fit my career requirements.
• I'd want to do testing, consulting, and private practice, and the PhD allows for testing and adds credibility to aid in developing a consulting and private practice business.
• Aside from Counseling Psych, other alternatives all seem to fall somewhat short of what I want. Honestly, I'm also attracted to the academic rigor and relative prestige of psychology.

Why might I not want to?:

• I'm already 27 and lacking research experience and required coursework.
• I'm married, and we're trying to have a kid.
• My wife is a school teacher who does not earn much.
• We own a home in a town we both enjoy.
• It may be too hard, too lengthy, and too costly (not just financial costs) a process for me to begin at this stage in life.
• Some alternatives provide similar opportunities with less difficulty and time to get there.
• These forums suggest that pursuit of this career is a bit more bleak than people in my position realize.

It hinges on:

• If I knew I could get into a program in the southeast and complete it with reasonable debt in a reasonable time, I would almost certainly pursue this path.

My stats:

GPA: 3.94 from a major state school (top 20 public university), philosophy degree.

GRE: 1430 -- 730 verbal, 700 math, 5.5 writing

Psych Experience: None.

Research Experience: None.

Psych Courses: 'Intro to Psych' only

Next steps toward a PhD...:

To go for it, I would have to take undergraduate courses in psych this fall and maybe in the spring as well. I'd also need to gain research experience. Even then, I'm not confident I could get into a program for this coming cycle -- it may well be fall of 2013 before I could start.


Conclusion:

I know I would be an asset to a graduate program and more than competent as a practitioner. I know that I would love doing both.

At this point, I'm just not sure if it's prudent of me to try given the obstacles and uncertainties that I'm reading about here. Of course, I'm not sure it would be imprudent either.

Either way, I've got to decide something soon and get on with it.

I could really use some advice and thoughts. :/

---

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[futureapppsy2]

Honestly, considering that you would have to submit your applications in December or January, you would essentially be applying with NOTHING--no psych coursework completed (because often applications are due before fall semester grades come out) or just a single semester of psych coursework, and at best, a few months of research and/or clinical experience. Maybe I could see your application becoming competitive for 2013 if you really, really worked hard at it, but I honestly don't see someone starting at essentially point zero in terms of relevant course work and experience in June and being a competitive applicant to a university-based PhD program the following December/January. There's been SDNers who have made a later in life career change into funded programs, but it required multiple years of prep even for those who did it relatively quickly (cf. some of the posts here: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=10001020). Doing it in 6 months isn't going to work, IMHO. Honestly, if you're not willing/able to put in at least a solid 18 months (and likely more) of prep time, it could make people question your commitment to a PhD (IMO, it's not easy--at all--and you have to be very committed to it to get through). You'll be competing against people with years of research experience, posters, presentations, publications, and (although less important at a vast majority of programs) years of clinical experience, not to mention research experience specific to their interests (research interest match is a key component of getting in). Also, your reasons for wanting to go into psychology seem a bit... nebulous. Feeling that you are a "good communicator," true or not, is really nebulous and even cliched, and it doesn't really reflect that you have a good understanding of what psychology and psychology grad school entails.

If you really want a PhD in psychology, you can work towards it, although it's not a guarantee. Take classes, get very involved in research, develop research interests, and do a bit of clinical volunteering. It will require a multiyear commitment for even preparing to apply and probably a fair amount of financial, temporal, and personal/social sacrifice, and geographically limiting yourself will complicate things even more.

One possible alternative would be to get a Masters degree in Counseling or Experimental/General psych and then apply for a PhD program afterwards. Admission will probably be easier than a university-based PhD or PsyD, but they are still going to require some prereqs and experience and demonstration of knowledge/interest, so even then, it's not a guarantee (I'll cop to not knowing that much about Masters admissions, so hopefully, someone who knows more can speak to that).

Sorry for the discouraging post. This isn't meant to stomp on your dream but rather to point out the realities of taking the path your considering. Good luck to you!

 

[aequitasveritas]

Major; life altering decision....no way around it.

If you're going to try getting into a funded program you're going to need to take the required pre reqs first and also have some research experience...a few years ur prob looking at. Then, u enter the program and spend another 5-7 yrs before you graduate. Then, you get post doc hours...then a few years after that u might be able to start a private practice if you have enough capital for physical plant investment. But, u've gone to a funded research program...ur probably not aimed at private practice coming out of that...more like research/teaching.

If you go to an unfunded program...all the above..plus $200,000 in loans.

I know I would be an asset to a graduate program and more than competent as a practitioner

People who think this usually are the worst clinicians.

 

[forwantofaphd]

Sorry for the discouraging post. This isn't meant to stomp on your dream but rather to point out the realities of taking the path your considering. Good luck to you!

Posts like yours are what I was hoping for, regardless of whether I like the opinion or not. I want advice that is useful, not pleasant.

Thanks for the thoughts, and I'll welcome others like them if they help me make a wise choice.

 

[forwantofaphd]

Major; life altering decision....no way around it.

If you're going to try getting into a funded program you're going to need to take the required pre reqs first and also have some research experience...a few years ur prob looking at. Then, u enter the program and spend another 5-7 yrs before you graduate. Then, you get post doc hours...then a few years after that u might be able to start a private practice if you have enough capital for physical plant investment. But, u've gone to a funded research program...ur probably not aimed at private practice coming out of that...more like research/teaching.

If you go to an unfunded program...all the above..plus $200,000 in loans.

Thanks for the input. These are the kind of comments I was hoping for.

 

[forwantofaphd]

People who think this usually are the worst clinicians.

Off-topic but would you like to explain this opinion?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Being a competent and effective clinician does not mean that the person is a good listener, has a lot of experience counseling friends, and gives great advice, which are often the reasons that people give as proof they will be a good clinician. Advice giving is actually more of a liability than an asset in clinical work. It is similar to people who attend law school and declare that they are excellent writers, therefore they will be excellent legal writers. The vast majority of law students need to toss aside what they think they know, and instead need to learn everything from the perspective of a lawyer with far more training and experience in legal writing.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Being a competent and effective clinician does not mean that the person is a good listener, has a lot of experience counseling friends, and gives great advice, which are often the reasons that people give as proof they will be a good clinician. Advice giving is actually more of a liability than an asset in clinical work.

This.

 

[PsychPhDone]

Being a competent and effective clinician does not mean that the person is a good listener, has a lot of experience counseling friends, and gives great advice, which are often the reasons that people give as proof they will be a good clinician. Advice giving is actually more of a liability than an asset in clinical work. It is similar to people who attend law school and declare that they are excellent writers, therefore they will be excellent legal writers. The vast majority of law students need to toss aside what they think they know, and instead need to learn everything from the perspective of a lawyer with far more training and experience in legal writing.

This!

I dont't think the OP is in a position to make this decision before pursuing some more coursework, clinical, and research experience. Try it before you buy it! (or are funded by it...)

 

[aequitasveritas]

Being a competent and effective clinician does not mean that the person is a good listener, has a lot of experience counseling friends, and gives great advice, which are often the reasons that people give as proof they will be a good clinician. Advice giving is actually more of a liability than an asset in clinical work. It is similar to people who attend law school and declare that they are excellent writers, therefore they will be excellent legal writers. The vast majority of law students need to toss aside what they think they know, and instead need to learn everything from the perspective of a lawyer with far more training and experience in legal writing.

This is all good & is a educative way of tellling you how things are mechanically different in the field as opposed to the non-field.

Off-topic but would you like to explain this opinion?

My post is a bit speculative about your personality style. People who proclaim their assuredness that they will make fine clinicians before they even have an understanding of a "clinician" often have characterological issues that would actually make it difficult to be "competent".

Think about it this way: if you go into an initial consultation with a patient, it behooves the process to assume you know nothing about them whatsoever, even is you have prior notes. The attitude that one is supremely competent detracts from the willingness to engage in phenomenological exploration and will patently distort reality through a narrow subjective gaze.

Of course we must have some healthy narcissism to even funtion properly as a psychologist....it is a matter of degree

 

[ClinicalPHD5]

A semester or two of research experience won't really cut it if you want to get into a good funded program. To be honest with you, with all the pre-requisites and research experience you need you probably won't start the program till you are 30 and won't be licensed as a psychologist till about 37-38.

Plus, if you have a baby this year, It may take you longer to complete the program (the average is 6 years, but people with young kids tend to take longer). Its very tough to get through a clinical psychology program with a young child unless (a) your spouse is making good money and you can afford child care for the many hours you will be working and (b) you have tons of family help nearby. If your wife is a teacher, i'm also not sure how you will support the two of them on your internship stipend of 25,000 (if you are one of the lucky ones that lands one) or your salary when you graduate. This is sadly one of the reasons why men don't enter this field anymore! Don't mean to discourage, but if you have a young child to support and your wife is a teacher, you should think about whether the degree is feasible from a financial standpoint.

 

[ClinicalPHD5]

the crossroads:

my career goals:

• something that offers a measure of structure, a measure of flexibility, good pay, and plays to my interests and skills.

i wouldn't say that clinical psychology is a very structured profession. Many clinical psychologists are self-employed and thus have unsteady incomes and are often doing several types of "jobs" to earn a living. Psychologists in private practice often work late to see clients and some work on saturdays to accommodate patients' schedules. You are running your own business/start-up so the income does fluctuate and involves an ability to tolerate a fair amount of risk.

The pay really fluctuates widely in this field depending on your business skills/training/luck/flexibility etc. And can vary from 30k-100k plus on the high end. In the southeast, i'm not sure that psychologists get paid much in private practice (can't imagine that this is a big money making place for private practitioners, but depends where?) you should talk to private practitioners and ask them directly.

it hinges on:

• if i knew i could get into a program in the southeast and complete it with reasonable debt in a reasonable time, i would almost certainly pursue this path.

you would probably have to apply to programs beyond the southeast to increase your chances. Most good funded programs accept only like 2-5% of applicants. Plus, even if you got into one of these programs, there is no guarantee that you would complete it in a reasonable amount of time. What is reasonable to you? Phd programs take from 5-7 years to complete. If you have a baby, this may take longer. Many students don't match for internship these days so they have to re-apply again the following year and delay graduation further. You want some certainty, but clinical psychology is a field of uncertainty.


i could really use some advice and thoughts. :/

good luck!!!!

 

[Peanut2011]

good luck!!!!

consider some way to fund your school bill. The harder programs ("funded") PhD are relatively impossible to get into = luckily for you there are ton of professional schools out their offering PhD and PsyD. For you, just take my advice here = get the PsyD = it will cause you allot less heart ache. Reading the tea leaves here = but this PhD is going to be way more research focused-- which I am thinking you are not that into (and if you are kind of like ok, *research* that's sounds kind of cool, then NO, no, no, no = PhD not for you). I did the PhD, and was infuriated to watch others in my cohort (who are basically as trained/ as good as me), email their "projects" in to their chairs... and then like a week later, they were like, you can call me doctor now; and meanwhile. I had to collect a large sample of 150 people, get my dissertation re-written several different times, and defend it, and then re-write it again.

Now, maybe you really-really want to do research and be a "professor" = and if this is all you want, then go for the PhD = but getting a PhD from a professional school still = really won't help (and it will be harder). So, if you are thinking in anyway more "clinical" like 51 percent clinical = then get a PsyD. Also, one of my hospitals main forensic psych docs = she is slightly autistic = but all she does is foresnic reports and she has a PsyD. So, for someone like you = just go PsyD = you will most likely be able to do/ clinical/ assessment all the stuff you want with the PhD not adding anything. I will probably get blasted by a bunch of PsyD's now = but look, you can make the PsyD as difficult as you want, and many programs let you make it pretty easy (listen to me here, go with EASY - if they let you make a poster board for your PsyD and the school is regionally accredited = take that option, and thank me later).

Now, you're going to pay big bucks (at least 60k to 80k or more for a professional school), so finding funding is nice = I would say = look into PUBLIC health service corps or something. Most professional schools err on taking people that would not have got into other schools, but would other wise be successful - meaning if you don't max out the GRE = Harvard isn't going to take you, but a prof. school will give the benefit of the doubt and realize that you will could probably succeed if you are committed.

So, basically it comes down to playing the game (and being confident), if you apply = you will probably get accepted to a prof. school. So GO for it, if it's your dream. Watch out with accreditation and prof. schools though. State-by-state school and licensing boards to become a licensed psychologist are different (you want to look for 2 things = APA accredited and regional accreditation [do not get your degree at an online school] = and **regional accreditation** is the most important = tricky, huh (you would think APA, but it's not it's regional accreditation = most important) Again, look into PUBLIC HEALTH service corps for tuition repayment or something like that.

Finally, I quote Maslow: "If you deliberately plan on being less than you are capable of being, then I warn you that you'll be unhappy for the rest of your life." !!! So, now what are you gonna do?

 

[futureapppsy2]

Peanut,

Can I ask you what all the equal signs in your posts are supposed to function as/represent?

Just curious.

 

[Peanut2011]

I am rooting for this original poster to go get her degree, and be a psychologist, and be far clinically superior to you (the poster of this message BELOW)... No hard feelings... original poster = GO FOR IT.

This is all good & is a educative way of tellling you how things are mechanically different in the field as opposed to the non-field.

My post is a bit speculative about your personality style. People who proclaim their assuredness that they will make fine clinicians before they even have an understanding of a "clinician" often have characterological issues that would actually make it difficult to be "competent".

Think about it this way: if you go into an initial consultation with a patient, it behooves the process to assume you know nothing about them whatsoever, even is you have prior notes. The attitude that one is supremely competent detracts from the willingness to engage in phenomenological exploration and will patently distort reality through a narrow subjective gaze.

Of course we must have some healthy narcissism to even funtion properly as a psychologist....it is a matter of degree

 

[Peanut2011]

my horrible = writing style and look I have a PhD and a APA residency and if I wanted a guaranteed APA fellowship. How many of you can say that. Original Poster = pursue your dreams...

Peanut,

Can I ask you what all the equal signs in your posts are supposed to function as/represent?

Just curious.

 

[aequitasveritas]

I am rooting for this original poster to go get her degree, and be a psychologist, and be far clinically superior to you (the poster of this message BELOW)... No hard feelings... original poster = GO FOR IT.

...Obviously what I wrote struck a chord in you for some reason.

my horrible = writing style and look I have a PhD and a APA residency and if I wanted a guaranteed APA fellowship. How many of you can say that.

...Oh, now I know what chord it struck. You must have taken offense to the "narcissism" part.

Original Poster = pursue your dreams...

...you projected all over the OP here..it's sticky...and some got in his eye.

Yeah OP....just close your eyes and leap; don't even look at the potential dangers. If you have an impulse just go for it like the Peanut here. No bother for planning....I mean that's just what we tell our clients, right?
...this thread is now laughable.

 

[sydb1367]

peanut, why do say regional accreditation is more important than apa?

 

[roubs]

peanut, why do say regional accreditation is more important than apa?

Because he is misinformed?

 

[ADDICTED2STATS]

As for the original post. I was in a very similar position. Restricted geographically, good stats (although yours are better than mine), no psych experience, no research experience of any kind, no coursework in psych, and no time to spend 2-3 years preparing for grad school. Had I known about this forum, I would have gotten on here, been told that it's impossible, and given up. Fortunately I didn't know about the forum then.

I was accepted into a small funded clin psych PhD program. So it is possible, although the exception rather than the rule. I didn't spend years preparing for grad school, more like months. I decided I was going to go to grad school for psych in May and was applying the following November. Here's what I did:

1) I studied for the psych GRE all summer and got a decent score.
2) I started taking psych courses at a local University in the Fall.
3) I got involved in some research (although admittedly it was pretty sad as I was in a department in which faculty did almost no research).

My reference letters ended up being from psych faculty that had only known me for the past few months (not ideal). My thought was, if I can get to the interview, I can win these people over. And that's exactly what happened. Although my credentials were nowhere near my competition (at least I don't think they were), I received an offer at my first (and second for that matter) choice school (not a waitlist offer mind you, I was among the first people the DCT called that morning).

So, it is certainly possible, but I should note that I've made a lot of sacrifices to get to this point. Also, the future of our discipline is bleak, which makes me question all the time whether or not it was worth it. None-the-less, I love what I do, and as long as I can keep doing it (knock on wood) I'll never work another day in my life.

Since you asked for advice, here it is: Follow your dreams, it's never too late to be who you always wanted to be. Good luck and feel free to PM me if you like.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Because he is misinformed?

IIRC, regional accreditation is a pre-req for APA accreditation.

As for the original post. I was in a very similar position. Restricted geographically, good stats (although yours are better than mine), no psych experience, no research experience of any kind, no coursework in psych, and no time to spend 2-3 years preparing for grad school. Had I known about this forum, I would have gotten on here, been told that it's impossible, and given up. Fortunately I didn't know about the forum then.

I was accepted into a small funded clin psych PhD program. So it is possible, although the exception rather than the rule. I didn't spend years preparing for grad school, more like months. I decided I was going to go to grad school for psych in May and was applying the following November. Here's what I did:

1) I studied for the psych GRE all summer and got a decent score.
2) I started taking psych courses at a local University in the Fall.
3) I got involved in some research (although admittedly it was pretty sad as I was in a department in which faculty did almost no research).

My reference letters ended up being from psych faculty that had only known me for the past few months (not ideal). My thought was, if I can get to the interview, I can win these people over. And that's exactly what happened. Although my credentials were nowhere near my competition (at least I don't think they were), I received an offer at my first (and second for that matter) choice school (not a waitlist offer mind you, I was among the first people the DCT called that morning).

So, it is certainly possible, but I should note that I've made a lot of sacrifices to get to this point. Also, the future of our discipline is bleak, which makes me question all the time whether or not it was worth it. None-the-less, I love what I do, and as long as I can keep doing it (knock on wood) I'll never work another day in my life.

Since you asked for advice, here it is: Follow your dreams, it's never too late to be who you always wanted to be. Good luck and feel free to PM me if you like.

Wow, impressive. Although I would like to point out that there's nothing inherently "inferior" about a waitlist offer--if you're in, you're in. I actually received a university fellowship from a program where I was initially waitlisted whereas some others who were admitted straight-out didn't, so it can be (seemingly) sort of random at times.

 

[Peanut2011]

maybe so, but regardless, I want the original poster to be informed of the trickiness and be familiar with important terms. I have heard of schools being APA accredited and not regionally accredited (maybe Argosy is Texas at some point?). Anyway, original poster should know these things. period. Also, to the original poster, again, if this is your dream = go for it!!!

Because he is misinformed?

 

[Peanut2011]

and especially important for original poster to know how sate to state things my differ for psychologists and the rules governing them. Dr. Google is your friend here (I think in some states you can call your self psychologist at the MA level if you pass EPPP?).

maybe so, but regardless (of the importance of regional accreditation or the non importance of it, or that it's a pre-req of a pre-reg for APA being APA accredited = whatever), I want the original poster to be informed of the trickiness and be familiar with important terms like this. I have heard of schools being APA accredited and not regionally accredited (maybe Argosy is Texas at some point?). Anyway, original poster should know these things. period. Also, to the original poster, again, if this is your dream = go for it!!!

 

[Peanut2011]

Original poster, you wanted to hear about the "bad" in the field? Well read into how this individual (below) went after me-- what is the essence of this post = it reeks of insecurity = more so then me encouraging you to be better clinically than this poster below; or I think so anyway?

Be warned, you will be dealing with snide people like this (below) in this field quite a bit (psychologists are pretty weird people, which, is fine as I am too-- everyone is a little/ right?, but they can also be very self involved/ self absorbed/ and think they are way more important then they are and very sensitive [especially the grad students])... this is common, and you will see this in the field (but don't let it deter you)...

Read my posts on me considering MD, now that I have my PhD in psychology. There is allot of stuff that you might find helpful (especially if you are more interested in the clinical practice of psychology). At the end of the day, here is what I do know -- whether you pursue the PhD over the PsyD. [funded or not], you will most likely be pretty good clinically (due to your training = that is what I am banking on) and maybe doing research as well from a psych perspective. I don't regret earning those things/ those skills for me or that I did. I did my undergrad at Northwestern U., and duel majored in psychology and economics, as I was obligated to serve in the military after graduation (Navy), taking the time off after completing my military service to pursue a funded PhD-- I did not want to do this. I did non funded but funded via Army HPSP - PhD.

(others indicate this on your post), but keep in mind Post grad with a PsyD (which will be easier to get, the job prospects will be somewhat limited or better said "riskier" = as indicated above, but they are there (the jobs). Also, think about the time it may take for you to get that funded PhD = might be time later not spent earning a real paycheck. Just be sure to weight (which you seem to be doing), weigh all your options and realistically consider the cost benefit of funded PhD (it seems like it will not only take you longer to get into a funded PhD, but keep in mind the average time it takes to complete "that PhD" is allot longer than PsyD.

At the end of the day = the license is the same, and again, (I don't want to be redundant here, but depending on your interests the PhD from a funded program may not add anything for you; and from my personal perspective a PhD from a NON funded program will certainly not add anything, and although PsyD. might be more risky -- you are going to probably be able to get it much more quickly -- like 5 years (maybe 4 if you really work at it); but that "funded PhD" is going to take you maybe 6 to 8yrs (you can generally look up the average time it takes per program), so consider that might be money lost while you are working with your license at a real job earning real $$$, and not time spent ABD = all but dissertation = following some snotty/ stuffy professor around...
--Ben

...Obviously what I wrote struck a chord in you for some reason.




...Oh, now I know what chord it struck. You must have taken offense to the "narcissism" part.



...you projected all over the OP here..it's sticky...and some got in his eye.

Yeah OP....just close your eyes and leap; don't even look at the potential dangers. If you have an impulse just go for it like the Peanut here. No bother for planning....I mean that's just what we tell our clients, right?
...this thread is now laughable.

 

[Peanut2011]

bottom line, original poster, know your options and realize state to state things are going to subtly differ.

I went to CSPP - san diego it is WASC/ APA accredited...What's going to matter is what any particular state licensing board says about what it means to be a psychologist and have a license. So, make sure if there is a disconnect between your school and or the state you want to practice in-- you know that (that is if you plan/ want to be licensed practicing psychologist). Here is a glimpse to some of the confusing nature of this:

www.psychboard.ca.gov/applicants/assemblybill400.shtml

-that's one example of the board for CA and psychology-

**and this school (below link) is PSP [as one example] of the mumbo-jumbo they provide (not necessarily CSPP-- not saying CSPP is without fault); but one thing to keep in mind is that funded PhD will not generally be as sketchy or confusing as this either (see below) what PSP says-- you figure it out :

http://www.psychology.edu/admission...nts/attending-a-regionally-accredited-school/

For instance, again (below info per state of CA), whether APA accredited is implied or not with regional accrediations. This is the language of the Law in CA. Just be aware of the state laws where you want to settle.
[in CA for instance] -
Assembly Bill 400
2. Require applicants for licensure to possess the appropriate degree which has been obtained from a regionally accredited university. No longer will the board be required to accept psychology degrees from unaccredited universities except for those psychology degrees that were obtained from a school that was "approved" by the California Bureau of Private Postsecondary and Vocational Education on or before July 1, 1999. Additionally this bill will require that such "approved" schools have not, since July 1, 1999 had a new location and that such schools are not a franchise institution as defined in section 94729.3 of the Education Code.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

These posts sound more and more like trolling...

 

[aequitasveritas]

Wow. If there's one thing I've learned on SDN it is to stop trying to wage rational arguments against irrational sources.

T4C....I thought this was a troll when the Peanut first struck.

Peanut...get help.

 

[forwantofaphd]

Honestly, considering that you would have to submit your applications in December or January, you would essentially be applying with NOTHING--no psych coursework completed (because often applications are due before fall semester grades come out) or just a single semester of psych coursework, and at best, a few months of research and/or clinical experience. Maybe I could see your application becoming competitive for 2013 if you really, really worked hard at it, but I honestly don't see someone starting at essentially point zero in terms of relevant course work and experience in June and being a competitive applicant to a university-based PhD program the following December/January. There's been SDNers who have made a later in life career change into funded programs, but it required multiple years of prep even for those who did it relatively quickly (cf. some of the posts here: So let me get this straight...). Doing it in 6 months isn't going to work, IMHO. Honestly, if you're not willing/able to put in at least a solid 18 months (and likely more) of prep time, it could make people question your commitment to a PhD (IMO, it's not easy--at all--and you have to be very committed to it to get through). You'll be competing against people with years of research experience, posters, presentations, publications, and (although less important at a vast majority of programs) years of clinical experience, not to mention research experience specific to their interests (research interest match is a key component of getting in). Also, your reasons for wanting to go into psychology seem a bit... nebulous. Feeling that you are a "good communicator," true or not, is really nebulous and even cliched, and it doesn't really reflect that you have a good understanding of what psychology and psychology grad school entails.

If you really want a PhD in psychology, you can work towards it, although it's not a guarantee. Take classes, get very involved in research, develop research interests, and do a bit of clinical volunteering. It will require a multiyear commitment for even preparing to apply and probably a fair amount of financial, temporal, and personal/social sacrifice, and geographically limiting yourself will complicate things even more.

One possible alternative would be to get a Masters degree in Counseling or Experimental/General psych and then apply for a PhD program afterwards. Admission will probably be easier than a university-based PhD or PsyD, but they are still going to require some prereqs and experience and demonstration of knowledge/interest, so even then, it's not a guarantee (I'll cop to not knowing that much about Masters admissions, so hopefully, someone who knows more can speak to that).

Sorry for the discouraging post. This isn't meant to stomp on your dream but rather to point out the realities of taking the path your considering. Good luck to you!

I found this old post just now after logging in to post my EPPP scores in the relevant thread and thought you might like to hear how things turned out (since we often don't get to hear the impact of taking time to help strangers on the internet). I ended up pursuing a master's in counseling first and then went straight into the PhD in psych, fully funded. I think your post was the first place I saw that suggestion, and I think I needed that approach to be remotely competitive.

As you predicted, it has indeed been a very long road -- much longer even than what responses were predicting, due to life events I couldn't have anticipated. But I'm confident it's been the right path for me, it's been a huge positive for my life, and it's turning out to be an even better fit career wise than I could have known back then. Thanks again for that act of generosity 13 years ago! I am grateful you took the time to give a perspective on my prospects that was realistic about obstacles while still allowing room for how a person might pull it off if they really wanted it.

 

[ClinicalABA]

I found this old post just now after logging in to post my EPPP scores in the relevant thread and thought you might like to hear how things turned out (since we often don't get to hear the impact of taking time to help strangers on the internet). I ended up pursuing a master's in counseling first and then went straight into the PhD in psych, fully funded. I think your post was the first place I saw that suggestion, and I think I needed that approach to be remotely competitive.

As you predicted, it has indeed been a very long road -- much longer even than what responses were predicting, due to life events I couldn't have anticipated. But I'm confident it's been the right path for me, it's been a huge positive for my life, and it's turning out to be an even better fit career wise than I could have known back then. Thanks again for that act of generosity 13 years ago! I am grateful you took the time to give a perspective on my prospects that was realistic about obstacles while still allowing room for how a person might pull it off if they really wanted it.

This is awesome! Congrats and thanks for the update. Best of luck moving forward!

 

[Sanman]

It's a good thing I read these threads all the way through. I did not initially read the date of the original post and would have given some advice. Good to know that we did not crush your dreams.

 

[WisNeuro]

It's a good thing I read these threads all the way through. I did not initially read the date of the original post and would have given some advice. Good to know that we did not crush your dreams.

Much like grapes into fine wine, dreams must sometimes be crushed to help someone find their way.

 

[forwantofaphd]

It's a good thing I read these threads all the way through. I did not initially read the date of the original post and would have given some advice. Good to know that we did not crush your dreams.

Ah I didn't really think about it being bumped. I've edited the OP to try to prevent others from writing new advice.

 

[Sanman]

Much like grapes into fine wine, dreams must sometimes be crushed to help someone find their way.

Who are you and what have you done with @WisNeuro?

No we are not paying the ransom, we wish him the best.

 

[futureapppsy2]

I found this old post just now after logging in to post my EPPP scores in the relevant thread and thought you might like to hear how things turned out (since we often don't get to hear the impact of taking time to help strangers on the internet). I ended up pursuing a master's in counseling first and then went straight into the PhD in psych, fully funded. I think your post was the first place I saw that suggestion, and I think I needed that approach to be remotely competitive.

As you predicted, it has indeed been a very long road -- much longer even than what responses were predicting, due to life events I couldn't have anticipated. But I'm confident it's been the right path for me, it's been a huge positive for my life, and it's turning out to be an even better fit career wise than I could have known back then. Thanks again for that act of generosity 13 years ago! I am grateful you took the time to give a perspective on my prospects that was realistic about obstacles while still allowing room for how a person might pull it off if they really wanted it.

Thanks for coming back with an update!