What are your thoughts on LECOM ??

[BocephusTim]

Does anyone have objective thoughts on this school? I hear so many things about it, most of it not that good. They seem to be opening branch campuses all over the place and then staff them with subpar faculty.

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[Goro]

They've got nothing on the McTouros.

You can't argue with that low tuition. I do with that they would respect adult learners by not mandating lecture attendance.

 

[BocephusTim]

You can't argue with that low tuition.

I guess that's why LECOM is always packed to the gills. Low tuition implies hiring the lowest-quality instructors. Just how the govt. works.

 

[Goro]

I guess that's why LECOM is always packed to the gills. Low tuition implies hiring the lowest-quality instructors.

Not necessarily

 

[Ho0v-man]

It’s a solid school but it’s very military-esque. Their students are generally good on rotations in my experience. Every alum I’ve met says their school did a good job, but they definitely don’t have warm fuzzy feelings about the admin. A lot of people entering med school have never really been told what to do before and don’t respond well to falling in line with stupid rules. The reality is that doing so is the reality of any real job and doubly so for doctors. Med school anywhere is a beat down and admin making it worse for no reason is far from ideal.

But if I’m being honest, the amount of medical students and even interns that seem to have never been forced to be anywhere on time ever is pretty alarming. Maybe other schools should take a page out of lecoms book on cracking down on students from the get go (a page, but not the whole book.)

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Cheap tuition, regional.reputation, and a good match lists. Big emphasis on PBL at all their campuses which is a very good learning style. It would be high on my list. Agree with @Ho0v-man . Many students have never had a real job and had to show up on time in professional dress. I'm always surprised, although I guess I shouldn't be,when students don't understand why they can't show up 20 min late, in their jammies,wearing fuzzy slippers, chowing down a breakfast sandwich while slurping a triple latte for lecture. Imo, I'm going for the lowest student loan payment and good match list.

 

[BocephusTim]

It’s a solid school but it’s very military-esque. Their students are generally good on rotations in my experience. Every alum I’ve met says their school did a good job, but they definitely don’t have warm fuzzy feelings about the admin. A lot of people entering med school have never really been told what to do before and don’t respond well to falling in line with stupid rules. The reality is that doing so is the reality of any real job and doubly so for doctors. Med school anywhere is a beat down and admin making it worse for no reason is far from ideal.

But if I’m being honest, the amount of medical students and even interns that seem to have never been forced to be anywhere on time ever is pretty alarming. Maybe other schools should take a page out of lecoms book on cracking down on students from the get go (a page, but not the whole book.)

Are you referring to LECOM's strict dress code and attendance policy? I think it can be a little stifling but you make a good point about them getting people prepared for clerkships. I can just imagine how some schools allow you to skip classes and dress in ratty scrubs and sweats all day for two years and then suddenly you're in the hospital at 5am and forced to wear a shirt and tie. Must be a shock to the system.

 

[BocephusTim]

Big emphasis on PBL at all their campuses which is a very good learning style

Doesn't LECOM even have a 3rd option which is like PBL but only requires one day a week at campus for case discussions and OMM lab? It's designed for people who already have some kind of health profession education (nurses, PA's, DDS/DPM's, etc) and can be confidently expected to pass Step 1 by studying at their own pace.

 

[calvinhobbes]

They don’t allow water bottles in all day lectures lol. So if you’re okay with that kind of environment and security yelling at you then this school is for you!

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Doesn't LECOM even have a 3rd option which is like PBL but only requires one day a week at campus for case discussions and OMM lab? It's designed for people who already have some kind of health profession education (nurses, PA's, DDS/DPM's, etc) and can be confidently expected to pass Step 1 by studying at their own pace.

My neighbor went there. They have an independent study option, I think it is called Independent Scholars Path. I personally would not recommend it as I think it would be the rare student who would excel in that pathway.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

They don’t allow water bottles in all day lectures lol. So if you’re okay with that kind of environment and security yelling at you then this school is for you!

So you would rather spend around around 100k more so you could drink water in lecture? Life is full of choices.

 

[BocephusTim]

My neighbor went there. They have an independent study option, I think it is called Independent Scholars Path. I personally would not recommend it as I think it would be the rare student who would excel in that pathway.

I heard it's very selective on who they let in that pathway. Needs to be someone with an existing degree in health professions --- so basically dentists, podiatrists, PA's, etc. who want to become DO's.

 

[calvinhobbes]

So you would rather spend around around 100k more so you could drink water in lecture? Life is full of choices.

It’s one example of many of why their students hate the admin. I’m not degrading their education, it’s just not a school that loves its students, nor its hospital sites, just solely loves their board members. There’s a reason why NY kept saying no for the longest time to Elmira’s campus opening (hint: Lecom admin are cheap and act like immature gods gift to medicine, which I can assure you is not the case lol). I wouldn’t choose a school that is 100k more (does that tuition even exist in some schools?) but 50k? Yes, especially if a school cares about its students, which Lecom does not. Sure they “care” but on paper only. I would
absolutely choose a pricier school that offers better rotation sites rather than harsher archaic policies; wellness is important in med school. A lot of nepotism there too. Plus you would be paying for better opportunities in Touro and NYIT for example if you want to stay local. Don’t get me started on the Bradenton campus (hint: choose nova lol). You get what you pay for. Their rotations sites stink (Lecom refuses to pay higher rates to “better” hospitals), and their admin is an absolute dictatorship.

 

[Dantes]

Everyone I know who has gone there has hated it. It gets the job done in terms of achieving your goal and most people seem to match, but if you have better options I'd go elsewhere.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

It’s one example of many of why their students hate the admin. I’m not degrading their education, it’s just not a school that loves its students, nor its hospital sites, just solely loves their board members. There’s a reason why NY kept saying no for the longest time to Elmira’s campus opening (hint: Lecom admin are cheap and act like immature gods gift to medicine, which I can assure you is not the case lol). I wouldn’t choose a school that is 100k more (does that tuition even exist in some schools?) but 50k? Yes, especially if a school cares about its students, which Lecom does not. Sure they “care” but on paper only. I would
absolutely choose a pricier school that offers better rotation sites rather than harsher archaic policies; wellness is important in med school. A lot of nepotism there too. Plus you would be paying for better opportunities in Touro and NYIT for example if you want to stay local. Don’t get me started on the Bradenton campus (hint: choose nova lol). You get what you pay for. Their rotations sites stink (Lecom refuses to pay higher rates to “better” hospitals), and their admin is an absolute dictatorship.

25 k a year for 4 yrs is 100k. This is where I got the number. There are some schools in the high 60's. Chicago is over 80k a yr. But go where you think gets you to where you want to be with your goals. Schools are only a means to that end. My school was similiar, But it was strict for only 2 yrs of pre clinical. I got where I wanted to go in the end. At 6 to 7% student loans, an extra 50 to 100k takes awhile to pay back. That's why I like schools with lower tuition. I can play their game for the 18 months of pre clinical. All med schools, MD and DO struggle to find decent clinical training sites. Dont kid yourself. New schools, MD and DO, crank out more students every year. Clinicians are under more pressure to produce, and lack time to teach, so many are opting out from teaching. It may look a lot greener somewhere else, but it's not much different.

 

[calvinhobbes]

25 k a year for 4 yrs is 100k. This is where I got the number. There are some schools in the high 60's. Chicago is over 80k a yr. But go where you think gets you to where you want to be with your goals. Schools are only a means to that end. My school was similiar, But it was strict for only 2 yrs of pre clinical. I got where I wanted to go in the end. At 6 to 7% student loans, an extra 50 to 100k takes awhile to pay back. That's why I like schools with lower tuition. I can play their game for the 18 months of pre clinical. All med schools, MD and DO struggle to find decent clinical training sites. Dont kid yourself. New schools, MD and DO, crank out more students every year. Clinicians are under more pressure to produce, and lack time to teach, so many are opting out from teaching. It may look a lot greener somewhere else, but it's not much different.

Great points!!

 

[MDMechEngr]

"All med schools, MD and DO struggle to find decent clinical training sites."

I can assure you with 100% certainty that my MD school does not struggle with this. LOL.

 

[Ho0v-man]

It’s one example of many of why their students hate the admin. I’m not degrading their education, it’s just not a school that loves its students, nor its hospital sites, just solely loves their board members. There’s a reason why NY kept saying no for the longest time to Elmira’s campus opening (hint: Lecom admin are cheap and act like immature gods gift to medicine, which I can assure you is not the case lol). I wouldn’t choose a school that is 100k more (does that tuition even exist in some schools?) but 50k? Yes, especially if a school cares about its students, which Lecom does not. Sure they “care” but on paper only. I would
absolutely choose a pricier school that offers better rotation sites rather than harsher archaic policies; wellness is important in med school. A lot of nepotism there too. Plus you would be paying for better opportunities in Touro and NYIT for example if you want to stay local. Don’t get me started on the Bradenton campus (hint: choose nova lol). You get what you pay for. Their rotations sites stink (Lecom refuses to pay higher rates to “better” hospitals), and their admin is an absolute dictatorship.

All med schools, MD or DO, don’t care about med students. They don’t see them as people. They see them as walking tuition checks. People who think otherwise are probably also convinced that the stripper really liked them.

At least LECOM is up front about it. I will clarify I’m only speaking about LECOM in PA. I know little about Bradenton besides what I’ve read on here.

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

Does anyone have objective thoughts on this school? I hear so many things about it, most of it not that good. They seem to be opening branch campuses all over the place and then staff them with subpar faculty.

The thing to like about LECOM is relatively low indebtedness and the absence of pressure in the future to practice in a specialty and place you hate. Yes, they run the place like a Catholic school in the 1950s. So what? It isn't as tough as the US Marine Corps. If you really want to help humanity by practicing primary care in a low-income area, you can do that after going to LECOM. If you want to get your loans paid off quickly and start a family after residency, you can do that by going to LECOM.

 

[yougotquestions]

All med schools, MD or DO, don’t care about med students. They don’t see them as people. They see them as walking tuition checks. People who think otherwise are probably also convinced that the stripper really liked them.

At least LECOM is up front about it. I will clarify I’m only speaking about LECOM in PA. I know little about Bradenton besides what I’ve read on here.

My DO school declined to open satellite campuses and chose to focus on their roughly 150 students. I thoroughly enjoyed my school and thought there were resources available for any type of difficulty whether it be academic or mental health.

Don’t get me wrong, the admins were admins, but it was the faculty and staff that made my school shine imo. Hey man as long as the stripper made me feel good in the end that’s literally what we pay them for.

 

[j4pac]

I went to LECOM B. Some people really struggle. Unfamiliar with authority, discipline, professionalism, and independence. Interestingly, myself, friends, wife never had any issues with admin. Essentially, LECOM treats you like you are going to be treated as a resident. The clinical rotations were a weak spot. I think many of us pursued options outside of the LECOM network. The network by all accounts has improved considerably since I went to LECOM B but it wouldn’t be surprising if it is lagging behind.

 

[Just D.O. it]

Unfamiliar with authority, discipline, professionalism

LOL, I didn’t go to LECOM but I go to a place that touted similar values. These nice flashy words don’t mean you are going to be treated like a resident, they mean you are going to be treated like a grade schooler.

I know for a fact that their ****ty attempts to teach us “discipline” and “professionalism” were unnecessary because we have other MD schools in state that don’t impose as many unnecessary rules, burdens, and what probably amounts to 100s of hours of wasted “mandatory events”, and their students turn out fine and obviously match better than us (this is a DO school).

That being said, I think @Ho0v-man really hit the nail on the head. Do not expect to be treated as more than a walking check/pawn as a medical student by administration especially. It’s not all bad though. There are definitely faculty that cared and we loved them for it.

HOWEVER, all of this being said, my advice is mostly in the context of you having other options. No accredited medical school is so terrible that you should turn it down to become an empty handed applicant for another year.

Me personally, even though I didn’t particularly like a lot about my school save for a handful of faculty and my awesome classmates, I still would do it over again 100 times out 100 rather than turn it down and burn another year in my life.

The same does not go for tuition, I would absolutely have paid extra to go to a school with less BS on the same timeline.

 

[j4pac]

LOL, I didn’t go to LECOM but I go to a place that touted similar values. These nice flashy words don’t mean you are going to be treated like a resident, they mean you are going to be treated like a grade schooler.

I know for a fact that their ****ty attempts to teach us “discipline” and “professionalism” were unnecessary because we have other MD schools in state that don’t impose as many unnecessary rules, burdens, and what probably amounts to 100s of hours of wasted “mandatory events”, and their students turn out fine and obviously match better than us (this is a DO school).

That being said, I think @Ho0v-man really hit the nail on the head. Do not expect to be treated as more than a walking check/pawn as a medical student by administration especially. It’s not all bad though. There are definitely faculty that cared and we loved them for it.

HOWEVER, all of this being said, my advice is mostly in the context of you having other options. No accredited medical school is so terrible that you should turn it down to become an empty handed applicant for another year.

Me personally, even though I didn’t particularly like a lot about my school save for a handful of faculty and my awesome classmates, I still would do it over again 100 times out 100 rather than turn it down and burn another year in my life.

The same does not go for tuition, I would absolutely have paid extra to go to a school with less BS on the same timeline.

It’s not for everyone. For me, and most people I know, it was fine. The tuition is cheap, location is nice, and match results are good. I think that you can argue whether their policies are dumb…but I don’t think that the strict policies are there for financial reasons. It’s a lot easier and probably cheaper to have a more lax policy. LECOM B knows its rep and intentionally doesn’t change it.

 

[baughlieve]

If you are going to DO school I’d just pick the cheapest one. LECOM is really not as bad as the disgruntled people online make it seem. Yeah they have stupid rules but you know that going in, just keep your head down and go about your business and you will likely get the residency you want if you are realistic. You aren’t matching neurosurgery at Hopkins but neither is the student from the 80k a year DO school. If you want to take out an extra 100k to get a Touro or NYITCOM degree and drink water in class go ahead, but your match outcome probably will be the same.

The rotations are lacking but that’s not worth 20k a year extra. I was very bitter about my rotation quality at the time and was honestly afraid to start residency. I got to my transitional year and found that a few coresidents from top 15/Ivy League schools were no stronger clinically than myself or a few other DO coresidents. Maybe the rotations have improved by now, idk. All my friends who took school seriously got the specialty they wanted and we all seem to be doing well in residency.

I know of a few cases of students getting in trouble with the school and the one thing in common was the students being unprofessional. Yes lecom harps on professionalism, it’s almost laughable, but you would literally not believe some of the things students did during my time there. Would you skip multiple mandatory lectures and when the school calls you out via email, respond to an administration member (without addressing them) telling them they need to do research before throwing around baseless accusations (when you were actually absent)? How do you think that’s gonna work out? How about lying about a family tragedy to get out of something mandatory? Cheating? Yeah it feels like you are in the military but they do want you to succeed, they aren’t going out of their way targeting innocent people. Security isnt going to yell at you unless you give them reason to, I walked through those doors everyday for 2 years without a single issue.

I’d recommend DSP or PBL. You don’t need a prior health professions degree to do DSP as someone suggested above. I had plenty of issues with lecom when I was a student but looking back I got a good education (even if I taught myself), matched in a competitive specialty, and am doing well in residency. My biggest gripe was the amount of mandatory things we had on campus during our “dedicated” board study time.

USMD> cheaper DO (established) >more expensive DO

 

[PAC2DO]

I went to Touro PA program and ended up going to LECOM for med school. Touro was extremely expensive for no reason and I don’t think they offer any better education/rotation. We (PA students) took anatomy classes with med students and the chiropractor was giving us lectures (this was 10+ years ago) and he would often give out questions on the exam - so i think their GPA is inflated to help with match. I think it doesn’t really matter what school you go to unless you want to go into super competitive field like neurosurg. Eventually you will use the same textbooks as the rest of the medical schools and you will use same board prep material. Rotations are there for you to experience how your practice is going to be if you decide to pursue that field. You may pick up some knowledge from here and there but most of those will be forgotten once you go into residency (ask ortho about how to manage DKA 😉). LECOM offers great rotations in Philly, San Diego, Pittsburgh and NYC. It really depends on how much work you want to do. Dress code and admin stuff are really minor issues. I did a PBL pathway and matched into the #1 residency program in my field and one of my friends did an independent pathway in Erie and he was a valedictorian - he also matched into #1 residency and #1 fellowship programs in his field. We both had multiple kids with family during our time at LECOM, so everything is up to how much work you put in.

 

[Ho0v-man]

I went to Touro PA program and ended up going to LECOM for med school. Touro was extremely expensive for no reason and I don’t think they offer any better education/rotation. We (PA students) took anatomy classes with med students and the chiropractor was giving us lectures (this was 10+ years ago) and he would often give out questions on the exam - so i think their GPA is inflated to help with match. I think it doesn’t really matter what school you go to unless you want to go into super competitive field like neurosurg. Eventually you will use the same textbooks as the rest of the medical schools and you will use same board prep material. Rotations are there for you to experience how your practice is going to be if you decide to pursue that field. You may pick up some knowledge from here and there but most of those will be forgotten once you go into residency (ask ortho about how to manage DKA 😉). LECOM offers great rotations in Philly, San Diego, Pittsburgh and NYC. It really depends on how much work you want to do. Dress code and admin stuff are really minor issues. I did a PBL pathway and matched into the #1 residency program in my field and one of my friends did an independent pathway in Erie and he was a valedictorian - he also matched into #1 residency and #1 fellowship programs in his field. We both had multiple kids with family during our time at LECOM, so everything is up to how much work you put in.

But don’t you know that every premed is extremely interested in a hyper competitive specialty?

 

[PAC2DO]

But don’t you know that every premed is extremely interested in a hyper competitive specialty?

Hahaha if they are aiming for highly competitive field like neurosurg or integrated plastic surg, they may have a better shot at trying reputable MD schools. However, if they are ok with going to community hospital for other competitive specialties (ortho/uro/derm/ophtho/IR), LECOM is fine I think.

 

[Just D.O. it]

uro/derm/ophtho/IR

LOL at thinking that a DO school except maybe TCOM is “fine” for someone who is committed to one of these specialties. Theoretically possible? Sure. “Fine”? I think that’s a rather inaccurate way to quantify how feasible it is in real life.

But if you are coming into medical school to become a urologist/dermatologist/ophthalmologist, you should probably look into Gap years and MCAT retakes because the difference that being MD makes when trying to match these is worth putting in the effort as a premed and that effort scales better than working really hard as a DO student instead. Again it is theoretically possible but the chances and opportunities you will be fighting for are mostly scraps compared to MDs.

IR is probably fine, direct match is tough. But DR match and IR fellowship are very doable.

 

[PAC2DO]

LOL at thinking that a DO school except maybe TCOM is “fine” for someone who is committed to one of these specialties. Theoretically possible? Sure. “Fine”? I think that’s a rather inaccurate way to quantify how feasible it is in real life.

But if you are coming into medical school to become a urologist/dermatologist/ophthalmologist, you should probably look into Gap years and MCAT retakes because the difference that being MD makes when trying to match these is worth putting in the effort as a premed and that effort scales better than working really hard as a DO student instead. Again it is theoretically possible but the chances and opportunities you will be fighting for are mostly scraps compared to MDs.

IR is probably fine, direct match is tough. But DR match and IR fellowship are very doable.

Classmates of mine matched into urology, direct IR as well as Ophth. I would say that they were at least top 10% in the class with excellent step scores. Once again, it’s probably a reach if one is shooting for a top tier academic programs but at a community hospital level or mid/low tier in less desired places (plus an away rotation at that institution), I believe people have decent chance. One certainly needs to have a solid game plan for applying in those field.

 

[Just D.O. it]

Classmates of mine matched into urology, direct IR as well as Ophth

Again, I never said it was impossible for DOs to match these fields. I acknowledge it can and does happen. What I took issue with is you describing going to a DO school when one these specialties is your top choice is “fine”. It is not. It is a huge disadvantage and less than ideal. Everybody’s got anecdotes about friends and classmates but I believe the DO match rate for Opth recently was 32% which I believe paints a lot more honest of a picture. If you are truly dead set on a surgical sub, Gap years, post baccs, and MCAT retakes warrant serious consideration even with a DO acceptance in hand. Hell, my schools true match rate for Gen surg applicants is usually about 50%. Most USMDs with an app free of red flags can pretty much guarantee a Gen surg match somewhere.

I’m sorry to burst the bubble of people coming on here talking about stuff like “The DO stigma is going away because x school matched a DO at an IVY league surgical sub program” when that doesn’t mean jack. DO schools are cropping up like weeds are residencies aren’t expanding, in fact the “merger” actually led to the closure of a sizable number of programs in competitive specialties that used to be DO exclusive. The DO match rates in even medium competitive specialties like rads and anesthesia are now worryingly low.

It’s honestly gotten to the extent that I tell people they are better off retaking the MCAT rather than telling themselves they’ll “crush STEP 2” and become the exception if they really think they have that kind of untapped potential. Again this is the context of students who are really committed to surgical subs. I still think DO schools are a great opportunity for students who just want to be a doctor.

 

[Bulliedinschool2doc]

They've got nothing on the McTouros.

You can't argue with that low tuition. I do with that they would respect adult learners by not mandating lecture attendance.

New Goro term just dropped

 

[Goro]

New Goro term just dropped

I have to admit that another SDNer use the term before I did.

Somewhere in the past in these fora is an actual list of Goroisms!