Becoming ABFAS certified

[diabeticfootdr]

I only pay for:

• ABFAS (board cert... get the one that actually matters for jobs or privileging)

Glad you finally got it so you can now get a job.

*You’re just repeating the myth. In reality, ABPM does more to help young podiatrists with privileges than any other organization in the profession. Because ABFAS is always trying to gate keep the OR. It’s harming the profession.

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Members don't see this ad.

 

[Forcewielder]

In hindsight, all of that money would have been much better put on my student loans or investment/retirement/savings or saving up for solo PP - particularly when I was 0-5yrs out and making very little. I only wish I would have dropped the other expenses sooner. There is never enough to buy it all.

Agreed. I've likely over-corrected and will add back 1 or 2 once I pay off loans, but that's where I was at. Why am I paying all these organizations when I still have student loans I am paying off? Or when I'm trying to budget my retirement savings vs 529 vs mortgage principal payments...

Can you elaborate on your justification for ACFAS? I did enjoy the journal, but the conference is always quite an expense for me (both in actual dollars and time off work. Got to love not having any PTO).

 

[Adam Smasher]

The fees associated with our boards and organizations bother me. I've never had a job that assists me in paying for them and so once the first year or 2 of cheaper payments went away I've dropped most. Paying $900 for APMA, $660 for ACFAS, $200 ABFAS qualified status, $700-1000/month for PICA, $900/state for DEA, state licensing fee(s), and whatever amount towards earning enough CMEs and taking the appropriate boards tests... you end up paying 15-20k annually to maintain good standing with all these. You gotta spend money to make money, but add in a $3000/month payment for student loans and about half of your $150k salary is spent before you've even started looking at your living expenses

One of the truly staggering things about podiatry when I was starting was how much money it cost me to simply show up to work. ABPM has been quiet in recent years about the CAQ, but when they first came on the scene in 2018 or 19, I found them in very poor taste, just another thing to separate young doctors from their money. Maybe I'm beating a dead horse, but it's bothered me for a long time. I was very pro ABPM in the Marc Benard era, they had some great advocacy and I'll admit they still do.

Can you elaborate on your justification for ACFAS? I did enjoy the journal, but the conference is always quite an expense for me

As far as good (non-infomercial) conferences go the ACFAS conference is the best deal. ~$700 for 20-something cme creds plus breakfast and lunch included. Similar state conferences are in the neighborhood of $1000. If you can get creds online, that's cheapest of all, but I end up not learning much, and I like to ask speakers questions after lectures.

Membership in the organization is what you make of it, read the articles and updates or don't read them, you decide if it's worth your $$$

 

[Feli]

...

Can you elaborate on your justification for ACFAS? I did enjoy the journal, but the conference is always quite an expense for me (both in actual dollars and time off work. Got to love not having any PTO).

If you go to their website (logged in) and go to Education > ACFAS OnDemand, there are hundreds of hours of CME videos you can do (mostly past ASC lectures, some other regional or etc ones). This was particularly useful during COVID, but always an option if you get short on time or travel cash. You can get some or all of your CME there for no additional fee besides the ACFAS membership. That's the main value of ACFAS membership imo: CME that's high quality and on your own time. Of course, journal is good (easily best for podiatry), discount on ASC is good if you go, regional events are good if they have one in your area, etc. I get my $600 or $700 worth every year, no doubt.

At the end of the day, most of our CME in podiatry is fair to terrible (APMA, PRESENT, Desert Foot, etc).
Some are pretty good... Podiatry Institute, GTEF, Swedish/IFAF, West Penn/WPFAS, etc if you can make the timing or travel work.
ACFAS is really the only consistently good one that's helpful for board prep, standards of care.

 

[Feli]

... I was very pro ABPM in the Marc Benard era...

Yep, same.

ABPM (ABPOPPM) was highly necessary as the training changed from mostly non-surgical to mostly surgical, and they were just a conflict-free alternate board that existed in harmony with ABFAS (ABPS) and APMA and ACFAS, etc.

 

[podourology]

Glad you finally got it so you can now get a job.

*You’re just repeating the myth. In reality, ABPM does more to help young podiatrists with privileges than any other organization in the profession. Because ABFAS is always trying to gate keep the OR. It’s harming the profession.

I’m poor. I don’t want to pay 2500$ for a board. You are gate keeping me from a Tesla with autopilot. Who wants a Tesla without it?

 

[podourology]

The fees associated with our boards and organizations bother me. I've never had a job that assists me in paying for them and so once the first year or 2 of cheaper payments went away I've dropped most. Paying $900 for APMA, $660 for ACFAS, $200 ABFAS qualified status, $700-1000/month for PICA, $900/state for DEA, state licensing fee(s), and whatever amount towards earning enough CMEs and taking the appropriate boards tests... you end up paying 15-20k annually to maintain good standing with all these. You gotta spend money to make money, but add in a $3000/month payment for student loans and about half of your $150k salary is spent before you've even started looking at your living expenses.

So yeah, this is my "old man yells at clouds" rant and adds to why I won't be even considering ABPM when ABFAS is the preferred board anyways.

Most relatable comment for 3rd year residents and fresh grads. Everyone who has hospitals paying their dues always brushes over this.

 

[Hybrocure]

Why pay for APMA or ACFAS as a new grad/associate. Honestly give me a good reason why it’s worth paying more than your license fees for this.

Also ACFAS is like the most expensive conference lol

 

[Adam Smasher]

Also ACFAS is like the most expensive conference lol

It really isn't. If you want to attend a conference and actually learn things ACFAS is not only the best, but the cheapest. I was thinking about going to Midwest Podiatry Conference last year to reconnect with old Chicago classmates--no way, not for $1k+.

The problem with ACFAS for me is that I don't do so much surgery, so I try to find conferences that focus on nonsurgical podiatry. But a lot of them are terrible. I would be interested to attend a podiatric wound care conference ONLY if there were zero lectures on skin subs and other expensive nonsense.

Venturing completely off topic: LER expo has had some pretty good free online CME credits this past year.

 

[Hybrocure]

It really isn't. If you want to attend a conference and actually learn things ACFAS is not only the best, but the cheapest. I was thinking about going to Midwest Podiatry Conference last year to reconnect with old Chicago classmates--no way, not for $1k+.

The problem with ACFAS for me is that I don't do so much surgery, so I try to find conferences that focus on nonsurgical podiatry. But a lot of them are terrible. I would be interested to attend a podiatric wound care conference ONLY if there were zero lectures on skin subs and other expensive nonsense.

Venturing completely off topic: LER expo has had some pretty good free online CME credits this past year.

That’s the thing - I relate to you in I want cme that specialized in more nonsurgical stuff or clinic optimization. Any surgical lectures just end up being circlejerks of look what I did and maybe you can too but not as good as this.

Unfortunately all cme just ends up being graft companies pushing the nonsurg stuff and hardware companies pushing the surgical lectures. Yeah yeah, no conflict of interest at the beginning of the lecture I know.

 

[Forcewielder]

That’s the thing - I relate to you in I want cme that specialized in more nonsurgical stuff or clinic optimization. Any surgical lectures just end up being circlejerks of look what I did and maybe you can too but not as good as this.

Unfortunately all cme just ends up being graft companies pushing the nonsurg stuff and hardware companies pushing the surgical lectures. Yeah yeah, no conflict of interest at the beginning of the lecture I know.

Agreed. I do a couple of surgical cases a week, but like the vast majority of pods I spend 90+% of my time in clinic. I'd love for lectures that relate to what I actually see. On a typical slate of lectures it's seemingly all TAR, recons, and scopes. No one wants to talk about wound care outside of skin subs or forefoot beyond complications (which usually could be avoided with a 1mpj fusion to start)

 

[Hybrocure]

Agreed. I do a couple of surgical cases a week, but like the vast majority of pods I spend 90+% of my time in clinic. I'd love for lectures that relate to what I actually see. On a typical slate of lectures it's seemingly all TAR, recons, and scopes. No one wants to talk about wound care outside of skin subs or forefoot beyond complications (which usually could be avoided with a 1mpj fusion to start)

I’d pay good money for a lecture on how to convince your patient to do a first mtpj fusion most effectively

 

[Feli]

Why pay for APMA or ACFAS as a new grad/associate. Honestly give me a good reason why it’s worth paying more than your license fees for this.

Also ACFAS is like the most expensive conference lol

I did above: the ACFAS OnDemand lectures are online and free w ACFAS membership. You can use all online CME, go to real seminars, or a combo. It's a way to get top notch online learning.

 

[Hybrocure]

I did above: the ACFAS OnDemand lectures are online and free w ACFAS membership. You can use all online CME, go to real seminars, or a combo. It's a way to get top notch online learning.

You can use ACFAS stuff for cme online?

 

[dtrack22]

ACFAS membership isn’t as good of a deal as Feli makes it out to be. If you are going to their conference yearly then you don’t need their online CME. If you are just using their online CME then you can do that cheaper than $700 or whatever they charge now. That membership fee only gets you like a $200 discount on the conference and doesn’t get you a deal on local/state conferences which most folks are more likely to attend regularly than the ASC. Journal articles and other educational materials can be had without paying $700 per year.

Drop ACFAS, save the money every year, pay full price for their conference whenever it’s in a location you want to visit/vacation. Do your local/state conferences if you want and get whatever other online CME you want, often times for free.

 

[Hybrocure]

ACFAS membership isn’t as good of a deal as Feli makes it out to be. If you are going to their conference yearly then you don’t need their online CME. If you are just using their online CME then you can do that cheaper than $700 or whatever they charge now. That membership fee only gets you like a $200 discount on the conference and doesn’t get you a deal on local/state conferences which most folks are more likely to attend regularly than the ASC. Journal articles and other educational materials can be had without paying $700 per year.

Drop ACFAS, save the money every year, pay full price for their conference whenever it’s in a location you want to visit/vacation. Do your local/state conferences if you want and get whatever other online CME you want, often times for free.

What is the SDN opinions on IFAF conferences? Their locations always seem so good

 

[Forcewielder]

My state only allows a small portion of CME to come from online. I have to attend a conference once a year essentially and like dtrack mentioned, the local conferences are easier and cheaper to attend. Thanks for the info tho everyone.

 

[dtrack22]

What is the SDN opinions on IFAF conferences?

You are there for the location and IFAF knows it. They schedule lectures around any “activity” that may be available (skiing) or around port time when on cruises. And they make check in/sign-in pretty easy. Meaning they aren’t strict like ACFAS.

If it’s a location you’d like to visit then I would highly recommend their conferences.

 

[diabeticfootdr]

ABPM has been quiet in recent years about the CAQ, but when they first came on the scene in 2018 or 19, I found them in very poor taste, just another thing to separate young doctors from their money.

In defense of this, we made it a $295 one-time cost to sit for a CAQ. There are no increases in your annual dues. That's probably the best deal in podiatric examinations/certifications.

 

[PODIATRYCRAZE]

SDN is like an addiction to me. I keep telling myself I will quit, delete the app, and delete my tabs. But no matter what I do I always find myself sneaking back late at night or early in the mornings.

Anyways here to call out another lie thrown at us since our student days. Just trying to educate readers so they don’t fall into the same traps.

ABPM does not offer a free certification exam during residency. They do offer free qualification/eligibility upon graduation though. There are free practice exams offered.

ABFAS also does not offer a free certification during residency. That free qualification exam you always hear about during residency if you pass on attempt 1? The exam is free similar to ABPM. But the qualification is NOT free. After passing, you have to pay for your “board qualified” title.

- Personal experience. And don’t forget how much you have to pay to certify later with them.

Bottome line is, even on here many ABFAS doctors will say to get ABPM early on. It helps get insurances and some early hospital privileges. Then they say drop it later after ABFAS certification. What I hear from this statement is that ABPM IS USEFUL.

If you check on my previous posts on another thread I prove how ABPM will still grant surgical privileges. That makes ABFAS useless.

 

[JewOnThis]

As someone who is also “dual boarded “ , I am keeping my ABPM membership. You never know when you are going to need it in this day and age. As those mentioned above, I have dropped my APMA membership a long time ago due to the outrageous fees.

 

[Adam Smasher]

I think this discussion is a reflection of a broader phenomenon in American culture where there is a loss of faith in institutions we should be able to rally behind. Back in my prepod days, one thing that struck me was that few doctors were members of the American Medical Association but 80% of DPMs were in APMA. Granted that was before the ACFAS schism, but there was a time when we were proud of our professional societies and willingly paid what it cost to support their mission.

These institutions need to do a better job of regaining our trust. If you're going to try to upsell me on a purposeless credential, you need a better argument than "But it only costs $295."

Also, since I'm an equal opportunity troll, I'll put this out there: if you need to explicitly call it "a credential you can trust," it's not trustworthy.

 

[Feli]

ACFAS membership isn’t as good of a deal as Feli makes it out to be. If you are going to their conference yearly then you don’t need their online CME. If you are just using their online CME then you can do that cheaper than $700 or whatever they charge now. ...
.... Journal articles and other educational materials can be had without paying $700 per year.

... Do your local/state conferences if you want and get whatever other online CME you want, often times for free.

Of course there is cheap or even free online CME, but you get what you pay for.

The ACFAS stuff is the best we have in podiatry. No contest.

A lot of our CME is laughably bad (APMA, ACPM, PRESENT), and it still costs money.

 

[Shiyuan]

Of course there is cheap or even free online CME, but you get what you pay for.

The ACFAS stuff is the best we have in podiatry. No contest.

A lot of our CME is laughably bad (APMA, ACPM, PRESENT), and it still costs money.

Personally, I try to attend non-DPM conferences like the state derm or rheum ones. Great info and lots of smart docs to learn from.

 

[Shiyuan]

Happy Memorial Day all!

 

[dtrack22]

Of course there is cheap or even free online CME, but you get what you pay for.

The ACFAS stuff is the best we have in podiatry. No contest.

A lot of our CME is laughably bad (APMA, ACPM, PRESENT), and it still costs money.

The best learning resources are free. I’d argue social media and some newer websites (15blades) are much better in terms of learning things that will change the way you practice/operate than anything you get CME credit for. CME credits are just for licensing, get them as cheaply as you can because even in the case of ACFAS material, you aren’t actually learning anything, you’re just doing it to satisfy a regulatory requirement or in the case of in person conferences, you’re using it as a vacation or an excuse to hang out with old friends.

 

[MicroPod]

I know a few DPMs who we work with in residency who only got ABFAS foot certified and gave up on RRA after failing a few times. However, the places they operate still let them do Rearfoot and ankle surgery regularly. Does this seem normal?

I think at this point I’m just planning to go for foot cert for board certification. Seems like the cheapest option since I already passed the didactic and CBPS exams. Not planning to practice in competitive markets. The hospital I will be working for soon pays for a certain amount of certification fees so may get ABPM in the meantime.

 

[Sole Badguy]

Acktually, the cheapest option = getting ABPM certified and not having to deal with ABFAS qualification maintenance / case review fees ☝️
Honestly though, just get certified in something and get your money's worth out of this low ROI profession. If ABPM can get you full surgical privileges, then stick with ABPM and save yourself the stress. In the end, you're a podiatrist no matter what board you certify in.

...but yeah, it's kind of funny how not having RRA doesn't completely exclude you from doing rearfoot/ankle surgery. If you can do it, you can do it; RRA just serves as a signal that you are comfortable in doing it. Not having RRA doesn't mean you lose your prior rearfoot/ankle surgical knowledge, but you have to do some extra legwork to demonstrate to your employer that you know what you're doing.

 

[HardRoadPaved]

In the end, you're a podiatrist no matter what board you certify in.

reads with a connotation doesn't it.

 

[Retrograde_Nail]

What is the SDN opinions on IFAF conferences? Their locations always seem so good

IFAF has good content in the most relaxed environment and excellent locations. I am going to the Hawaii one coming up in October I believe. It's amazing how those Swedish guys pulled it off. Create your own organization for education content. Get it approved to count towards CME. Collect fees. Write off any "business expenses". Collect travel rewards. I mean they did it the right way.

 

[Hybrocure]

IFAF has good content in the most relaxed environment and excellent locations. I am going to the Hawaii one coming up in October I believe. It's amazing how those Swedish guys pulled it off. Create your own organization for education content. Get it approved to count towards CME. Collect fees. Write off any "business expenses". Collect travel rewards. I mean they did it the right way.

Im gonna go just to meet the man the myth the legend

 

[Retrograde_Nail]

Im gonna go just to meet the man the myth the legend

Don’t spend thousands of dollars on conference fees, travel and lodging to meet me. Buy Bitcoin instead