Air Force FP Residency Match?

[Nylesor]

Any word on the competitiveness of the programs? I'm looking at Travis AFB, Ft. Belvoir, Eglin AFB, and Nellis AFB. I've seen some of the stats, but just wondering if anyone who's been through that or have heard from someone who has can give me info from their perspective. Thanks!

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[AFSmiley]

Any word on the competitiveness of the programs? I'm looking at Travis AFB, Ft. Belvoir, Eglin AFB, and Nellis AFB. I've seen some of the stats, but just wondering if anyone who's been through that or have heard from someone who has can give me info from their perspective. Thanks!

BUMPY BUMP BUMP!

There's got to be someone out there in military medicine cyberspace who has info on these programs.

C'mon..............one of you veterans, even the usual "This program sucks, I can't believe its still accredited, patient population is cookie-cutter, inpatient experience is pathetic, attendings are always deployed, don't go here, etc" would be an improvement!

Is Ft. Belvoir a joint army program?

THANKS!

 

[Informer]

Travis - 16 slots per year, normally get about 15-20 applicants who place it as #1

Nellis - Newest program, not sure about the numbers

Scott - Combined program with SLU civilian residents, 8 military slots, about 8-10 per year put as #1

Offutt - combined with local university is well, about 8-10 put as #1

Eglin - I think 10 slots, most people put this #1 due to location (Travis and eglin are the most popular due to location)

Ft Belvior/Andrews has made some changes so I have no idea what's going on with them now

Scott is known as the busiest, Travis and Eglin aren't as busy.

As far as competitiveness, you will normally get your #1 or #2 slot unless you manage to really piss some people off when you rotate

Feel free to ask me questions, I was chief at Scott FP residency and in charge of recruiting. I also go to know the Offutt and Eglin chiefs well and still talk to them occasionally.

 

[AFSmiley]

Travis - 16 slots per year, normally get about 15-20 applicants who place it as #1

Nellis - Newest program, not sure about the numbers

Scott - Combined program with SLU civilian residents, 8 military slots, about 8-10 per year put as #1

Offutt - combined with local university is well, about 8-10 put as #1

Eglin - I think 10 slots, most people put this #1 due to location (Travis and eglin are the most popular due to location)

Ft Belvior/Andrews has made some changes so I have no idea what's going on with them now

Scott is known as the busiest, Travis and Eglin aren't as busy.

As far as competitiveness, you will normally get your #1 or #2 slot unless you manage to really piss some people off when you rotate

Feel free to ask me questions, I was chief at Scott FP residency and in charge of recruiting. I also go to know the Offutt and Eglin chiefs well and still talk to them occasionally.

Thanks Informer! I appreciate the info.

Being combined with civilian programs, do the Scott and Offutt programs generally get better pathology compared to Travis and Eglin?

Are any particularly better for Ob for a Family Doc compared to the others?

An Army Buddy of mine just started his FP residency in Georgia. I'll shoot him an email and see what he knows about the Ft. Belvoir.

 

[Informer]

without a doubt, pathology seen at Scott outweighs those seen at eglin and travis. Our in-patient population is a mix of civilian and military *mostly civilian though. There is currently no cap for admissions at scott (though behind the scenes they are working on one now). I've admitted as much as 20 patients (1 senior, 1 intern) on one call night.

OB is also very busy at scott. I remember when I was doing OB during my intern year, a buddy of mine was doing his at Eglin at the same time. At the end of the month, we compared numbers and I delivered more than twice the babies he did.

There are pros and cons to a busy program. I will say that Eglin and Travis seems to be doing more research and they have more time to read up on the diseases they admit throughout the night.

Each program has their strengths and weaknesses. Rotate at each one and see what fits you best. For example, Nellis will have a nightfloat system, Scott does not. Scott is also an unopposed program at a community hospital (St Elizabeth's). Travis has IM (they also used to have peds and OB, lots of competition for small number of admissions). Our clinic is located right next to the hospital. At Offutt, the clinic and the university hospital is 20-30 min drive away.

I loved my time at Scott (I am biased though).

Oh, one thing about scott and offutt that sets it apart is the civilian leadership. At Scott, Dr Robacker has been the program director (or involved in the program) for decades and little changes have occured throughout the years. Military PDs/leadership will come and go. You may not have the same program throughout the years.

 

[GlobalMed]

Thanks for the great info so far. I'm going into FP and am considering all the options available for residency. I'm a very competitive student with a strong application and my primary goal for residency is to go somewhere with STRONG training and opportunities for leadership, involvement, and education about the future of family practice. I'd ideally like to live in a good location (I suppose Travis, Ft Belvoir, Eglin are my top based on location). Whether I do a military rotation or a civilian rotation really doesn't matter, just as long as the training is top notch.

That being said, can anyone give me what he/she considers a "top 3" list of AF FP programs based on the above characteristics?

Also, how realistic is civilian deferrment in FP this year? There are 10 deferment slots offered this year and I realize that's not very many. I don't have any overwhelmingly relevant reasons for wanting to defer (i.e. sick relatives, spousal issues, etc) and my reasons for being interested are more in line with my goals for residency: continuing to run a non-profit corp, developing global prevention initiatives, working with public health graduate programs, attending a top-notch training program, etc. All of these (with the exception of the latter) would likely be more possible in a civilian residency at a major university (i.e. UNC-Chapel Hill, University of Washington). Would the AF even consider a request to defer based on these reasons and the platform that the military would benefit from a resident trained at a top-5 FP civilian program?

I hope those of you who read this will not receive it as a boastful or arrogant post. Just trying to honestly describe where I'm coming from and get some meanginful feedback in return.

Thanks for reading and any advice you might be able to offer!

 

[thegunshow]

Thanks for the great info so far. I'm going into FP and am considering all the options available for residency. I'm a very competitive student with a strong application and my primary goal for residency is to go somewhere with STRONG training and opportunities for leadership, involvement, and education about the future of family practice. I'd ideally like to live in a good location (I suppose Travis, Ft Belvoir, Eglin are my top based on location). Whether I do a military rotation or a civilian rotation really doesn't matter, just as long as the training is top notch.

That being said, can anyone give me what he/she considers a "top 3" list of AF FP programs based on the above characteristics?

Also, how realistic is civilian deferrment in FP this year? There are 10 deferment slots offered this year and I realize that's not very many. I don't have any overwhelmingly relevant reasons for wanting to defer (i.e. sick relatives, spousal issues, etc) and my reasons for being interested are more in line with my goals for residency: continuing to run a non-profit corp, developing global prevention initiatives, working with public health graduate programs, attending a top-notch training program, etc. All of these (with the exception of the latter) would likely be more possible in a civilian residency at a major university (i.e. UNC-Chapel Hill, University of Washington). Would the AF even consider a request to defer based on these reasons and the platform that the military would benefit from a resident trained at a top-5 FP civilian program?

I hope those of you who read this will not receive it as a boastful or arrogant post. Just trying to honestly describe where I'm coming from and get some meanginful feedback in return.

Thanks for reading and any advice you might be able to offer!

I rotated at 2 AF programs and interviewed at another last year. Compared to other civilian programs that I rotated at or interviewed at, I will tell you that the AF programs are pretty good and expect alot out of their residents. When deciding among the 6 ( 5 AF, 1 Army) FM programs, you should take into consideration location and type of program. 2 programs are civilian university based (Scott with Saint Louis University and Offutt with University of Nebraska), the other 3 (Travis, Eglin, Nellis) are more military hospital based although do have outside civilian rotations. It is best to research the 6 programs and rotate at the two that most appeal to you.

As far as getting a deferment, just make it clear to military program directors on your rotations that it is your first choice and why, this may help your chances. Good Luck!

 

[Informer]

I used to keep track of how many FP defers were allowed each year just for kicks. There have only been a handful of deferments which I can remember (off the top of my head, some years have 2-3 defers, some have none)

We need to clarify something - IFB says 10 FP slots will go to deferment, this does not mean there will be 10 slots going deferred. They will usually fill the military programs first before letting anyone defer. When I applied, they offered 15 defers on IFB, but none when match time came around (ie, not enough FP applicants to defer)

Also, if you are a competitive student, chances are you will end up in military residency. PDs want the competitive ones, its good for the program. Sounds like you have a lot of extracurricular stuff going on. If that's the case, your chances of deferring are pretty low as progams want people who showcase different skills/potentials.

There are 3 ways to get deferred from my experience

1. Piss off all the PDs you interview at (though this can backfire and you can end up at a location you don't want)
2. Somehow "miss" all your ADTs and don't interview with anyone. When the selection board comes around, no one will know who you are.
3. There must be extreme circumstances, ie family near death.

My buddy tried to get deferred because his kid needed a specific type of tutor, and this tutor was only available in certain locations. USAF said sorry and he matched active duty (kicking and screaming however)

 

[GlobalMed]

I used to keep track of how many FP defers were allowed each year just for kicks. There have only been a handful of deferments which I can remember (off the top of my head, some years have 2-3 defers, some have none)

We need to clarify something - IFB says 10 FP slots will go to deferment, this does not mean there will be 10 slots going deferred. They will usually fill the military programs first before letting anyone defer. When I applied, they offered 15 defers on IFB, but none when match time came around (ie, not enough FP applicants to defer)

Also, if you are a competitive student, chances are you will end up in military residency. PDs want the competitive ones, its good for the program. Sounds like you have a lot of extracurricular stuff going on. If that's the case, your chances of deferring are pretty low as progams want people who showcase different skills/potentials.

There are 3 ways to get deferred from my experience

1. Piss off all the PDs you interview at (though this can backfire and you can end up at a location you don't want)
2. Somehow "miss" all your ADTs and don't interview with anyone. When the selection board comes around, no one will know who you are.
3. There must be extreme circumstances, ie family near death.

My buddy tried to get deferred because his kid needed a specific type of tutor, and this tutor was only available in certain locations. USAF said sorry and he matched active duty (kicking and screaming however)

I figured that was the case and can completely understand why they would want competitive students in their programs -- kind of a no-brainer there. I am in no way against doing an AF residency and am actually excited about a lot of the opportunities that might be available in doing one. Once again, my number one concern is that I go somewhere with great training and where I can continue pursuing the goals I've set for the early parts of my career. Hopefully the ADTs will help give me insight into the military programs and I'll just need to find the one that best suits me. Now just need to figure out which two to choose...
Definitely going to Travis in August but my other ADT is up in the air. Any suggestions based on the things I've mentioned in my previous posts?

Thanks again to everyone for taking the time to respond. The advice is invaluable.

 

[AFSmiley]

I'm also considering just serving my time as a GMO/FS and gettin' out ASAP.

-It gives me way more options for residency, and my understanding is that these slots do quite a bit of primary care anyway, so I know I'd lose a lot of information for those three years (3 yrs scholarship), but I can't imagine I'd lose everyting.
-Might be a nice break from the decade of schooling we have to do.


Thoughts on CHOOSING to do a GMO/FS tour?

 

[GlobalMed]

Thanks Informer! I appreciate the info.

Being combined with civilian programs, do the Scott and Offutt programs generally get better pathology compared to Travis and Eglin?

Are any particularly better for Ob for a Family Doc compared to the others?

An Army Buddy of mine just started his FP residency in Georgia. I'll shoot him an email and see what he knows about the Ft. Belvoir.

Any word from your friend in Georgia about the FP residency at Ft. Belvoir?

 

[Informer]

I'm also considering just serving my time as a GMO/FS and gettin' out ASAP.

-It gives me way more options for residency, and my understanding is that these slots do quite a bit of primary care anyway, so I know I'd lose a lot of information for those three years (3 yrs scholarship), but I can't imagine I'd lose everyting.
-Might be a nice break from the decade of schooling we have to do.


Thoughts on CHOOSING to do a GMO/FS tour?

There are many people who choose this and it works out great.

When I rotated at Travis, all 3 flight docs were getting out to do civilian residencies. They went to neuro, anesthesia and derm. They did their 3-4 years and got out.

I also have a friend who wants to do Physical medicine/rehab. However, they don't offer that as an option for residency so he is instead finishing his 4 years and getting out.

From residency, I know 3 people who did FS first and are glad they did it. They got operational experience under their belt, got to fly around in different aircraft. They joined the residency with different perspectives.

I also know someone who tried to get into radiology, couldn't get it and was forced into a FS slot. While there, he learned about aeromedical transport and CCATT. Now he wants to do medicine with a pulm/cc fellowship.

So yeah, GMO/FS can work out great if that's what you wanna do

 

[GlobalMed]

How big of a deal is it to only do one ADT/away rotation? I recently switched to family medicine and am finding that some programs are booked up through November. Is there any point in doing an ADT somewhere I know I DON'T want to do residency? I plan on at least traveling for an interview at the places in which I'm the most interested and just want to make sure that only doing one ADT won't hurt me down the road.
Thanks!

 

[AFDuck]

How big of a deal is it to only do one ADT/away rotation? I recently switched to family medicine and am finding that some programs are booked up through November. Is there any point in doing an ADT somewhere I know I DON'T want to do residency? I plan on at least traveling for an interview at the places in which I'm the most interested and just want to make sure that only doing one ADT won't hurt me down the road.
Thanks!

If it helps, I plan on doing the same thing for pediatrics - 1 ADT and then interview at the other programs. The folks I talked to at AFIT said it was very common to do one ADT and one "campus tour" to fulfill the AD requirements. Does anyone with AF match experience care to comment? Also, what are interview days like at bases where you're not doing an ADT?

 

[Informer]

I did the campus ADT because they couldn't get me into COT right away; I had already quit my job in anticipation so I needed the cash

In retrospect, I should've used up all my ADTs for military stuff

I am HPSP but I did 6 military rotations
2 ADTs, 4 out of pocket
Travis x 2 (flight med and FP, out of pocket because I live 1 hr from there and stayed at a friends house)
Keesler (Internal Medicine, out of pocket, then drove to Eglin)
Eglin (flight med because FP was filled, out of pocket)
Andrews (flight med, ADT)
Scott (FP, ADT)

All these rotations were planned at least 6 mos (if not 1 year) in advance so that my medical school had an MOU with the "out of pocket" bases

If I had the extra ADT, I would've used it on a rotation (at the time, you can bank all your ADTs till your 3rd or 4th year with permission, dunno if you can still do that since you have to do the intro to aerospace medicine course)

I was in charge of the military interviews, here's the schedule for Scott AFB -

Fly into area evening prior to interview day
Usually meet with a current resident for dinner
Show up at residency at 0800, get intro/slide show till 830 or 845.
9-945 get tour of clinic and hospital
945-1030 see us round and see how morning report goes
1030-12 you will interview with 3 or 4 people
1 with a chief resident
1 with the military assoc director
1 with the program director
May have another thrown in there with a random attending
12-1 lunch

 

[AFDuck]

Informer, what did you feel was the advantage of all these ADTs? Were you just unsure of where you wanted to do residency, or did you just prefer the AF hospitals to your home school? Thanks for the info on the interview day!

 

[Informer]

Informer, what did you feel was the advantage of all these ADTs? Were you just unsure of where you wanted to do residency, or did you just prefer the AF hospitals to your home school? Thanks for the info on the interview day!

I knew I wanted to do a military residency so I spent most of my time shopping the different FP residencies (and 1 IM residency)

- Went to Keesler for IM because I was deciding between IM and FP, interviewed here

- Went to Eglin to see the FP residency, interviewed (I did a flight med rotation but spent some time in FP); got to fly an F15 and MH53 (now retired)

- Went to Travis to see the FP residency, interviewed, also did flight med - got to use the boom simulator but didn't get to fly

- Went to Andrews to see the FP residency (didn't interview because I didn't want to go there) but did flight med rotation and got to fly Huey (awesome, got to see DC from bird's eye!!). Also good because I had to do my clinical skills test in Philly the same month so I just drove to philly while the ADT paid for the plane ticket from LA to DC

- Went to Scott to see FP residency, interviewed, ended up loving this place and matched here

My wife and I love to travel. We had never outside california (except nevada and oregon) until military. We've since been to 39 states and counting!

We now have 10 more days until we PCS to Okinawa!! (yes it was our first choice) w00t w00t

 

[Nylesor]

Thanks for all the tips informer. Just wondering what kind of stats are the AF FP program directors looking for? (i.e. GPA, USMLE, research, other things on CV, etc). Does going to USUHS or having prior experience help? Thanks again and good luck on your PCS.

 

[NavyFP]

Thanks for all the tips informer. Just wondering what kind of stats are the AF FP program directors looking for? (i.e. GPA, USMLE, research, other things on CV, etc). Does going to USUHS or having prior experience help? Thanks again and good luck on your PCS.

If you are in the top 2/3 of your class and have never failed boards, you will not have significant difficulty matching in Family Med. (unless you have a personallity disorder.)

FP for the past several years has had waning interest across the board. For the Military, it is hot one year, cold the next, so it is difficult to give specific numbers. Is USUHS a help? Probably, but again, only if your grades and boards are OK.

The key is to do the best you can in school and on boards. The better you do, the choosier you can be. People in the top quarter of their class and above average boards almost always get their first choice.

 

[Informer]

Thanks for all the tips informer. Just wondering what kind of stats are the AF FP program directors looking for? (i.e. GPA, USMLE, research, other things on CV, etc). Does going to USUHS or having prior experience help? Thanks again and good luck on your PCS.

When I interviewed, my goal was to determine if this applicant was a good fit with our program, ie not a hermit.

As far as academics, if there are no huge problems, you should get in. However, if there is a problem (ie boards, GPA, whatever), I ask, see how you respond, and move on.

With that being said, I've ranked academically superior applicants below those who have failed their boards if the applicant has no personality or doesn't fit well with the residency.

Keep in mind, this is from a chief's perspective. My job was to see if the applicant can get along with current residents. The other 3 interviewers may place more emphasis or academics or research