before I put down money -- critique my DIY postbac plan:

[adrenocorticotropicana]

Current stats:
MCAT 515 (August 2017)
GPA: 3.11 (science and total), with a need of transcript repair
I can post my transcript disaster in another comment if people need it
I was a BS biochem major, but didn't manage to take physical chemistry II and inorganic chemistry and had to switch to a chem BA to graduate (yay PTSD), and I have lots of physics lecture credits but had a C- and a D- in both my physics labs. I was a physics major so my Physics I, II, III and IV had no lab component even though they were 4 credits each. So I am planning to take a 2 credit advanced physics lab this year.

Socioeconomically disadvantaged. My EFC in undergrad ranged from 0 to 5000. ACE score 6. Almost got sent to foster care as a kid. Volunteering in a rape crisis advocate program in the ER this year. Also joining other clinical volunteering programs. About to get my EMT cert and hopefully get some patient hours that way and also support myself.

Going to use City College New York because credits are cheap:

Fall 2018, August 27 to December as non-matriculated student:

SOC 31112: Race Class and Power (3 cr, MW 8-9:15a)
CHEM 33200: Physical Chemistry II (3 cr, MW, 9:30-10:45a, w F 9:30-10:45a discussion)
SOC 31117: Global Inequality (3 cr, MW 10:00a-12:15p)
PHYS 37100: Advanced Physics Lab I (2 cr, M lec 4-5p**)
PSYC 24704 Social Psychology (4 cr, M 6-9:20p)

15 credits total

For physics lab, I already plan to build a little portable EKG / heart monitor out of an arduino as my project, idk. Frequency domain. Can't be that hard right? I have extensive coding experience (I teach it) and have experience with embedded circuits.

I really want to take Cellular Senescence (and cover apoptosis!! my favorite topic), Human Neurodegenerative Disease or Topics in Microbiology to balance out some of the sociology and psychology parts but I was planning to leave my Wednesday afternoons to Friday mornings completely free because I need uninterrupted blocks of time to work to support myself. (I also have already taken Microbiology Lab in undergrad.)

Because my ACE score is also 6 and I have a history of child abuse I also do a particularly traumatic line of work outside NYC which I won't go into detail here but it's how I'm paying the bills. Should I risk homelessness to take Human Neurodegenerative Disease / Cellular Senescence etc. in place of one of my sociology or psych courses??

Nov 15 2018:

deadline for applying to CCNY MS in Chemistry. If they need me to have completed Physical Chemistry II for a BS in Biochemistry, hopefully I can initially submit an application an MS in Chemistry then switch to a BS in Biochemistry halfway through the application process once I complete my course in December.

The masters in chemistry or biochemistry is a 30 credit program and should take me two semesters. I have to figure out how I have to support myself then. However does the following program sound competitive for medical school admissions? A masters in biochem would cost me 7k, would be useful even if I didn't get into medical school, and I can't really afford a 30k postbac...

CURRICULUM

Required Courses
Chem A8005: Biochemistry II (which I already took)
BICM 71010: Advanced Biochemistry I
BICM 71020: Advanced Biochemistry II
BICM 71110 Research Techniques in Biochemistry

Two of the following four:
BICM 72010 Basic Seminar in Biochemistry I
BICM 72020 Basic Seminar in Biochemistry II
BICM 81000 Seminar in Biochemistry (1cr.)
Chem B9800 Seminar in Biochemistry (1cr.)

One of the following two:
Chem B5000 Organic Mechanisms
BICM 75000 Bioorganic Chemistry

One of the following two:
BICM 77000 Physical Biochemistry
Phys V3800 Biophysics

Elective Courses
Two approved graduate courses in Biology (one course should be in molecular genetics).

​

The other issue is that I was planning on applying during the May-June 2019, then May-June 2020 if I didn't get in. Should I just wait till May-June 2020 instead? (Does having to reapply at the same schools hurt you a lot? I would rather stay in New York, for one.) Should I at least wait to finish one semester of my masters program before sending in my application? If applications are rolling admissions, so how much would sending in my application June 1 instead of May 1 hurt me?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[BobbyKoch]

515 and 3.11...people have gotten into DO schools with those stats... it sounds like you really need some clinical exposure. maybe focus on that and take only a few courses (the physics lab or whatever prereqs you are missing).

another thing to keep in mind is that many schools require the MCAT be within 2-3 years of matriculation, not application. varies by school.

also, not judging, but no one deserves to be traumatized by their work. no academic venture is worth risking homelessness. medicine may seem like the golden ticket, but I would urge you to find stability in your life before moving forward.

 

[adrenocorticotropicana]

The issue is that I have a downward trend and was thinking of boosting my GPA that way. I am arranging for clinical exposure opportunities and there is an EMT shortage in New York City. I was advised earlier not to retake the MCATs -- should I do that January 2019?

no academic venture is worth risking homelessness. medicine may seem like the golden ticket, but I would urge you to find stability in your life before moving forward.

I'm a child abuse survivor and have been in this situation for five years. Pretty sure this is one of my pathways out of my situation. I am single-minded about my decision to pursue medicine and I will certainly be not convinced against it. I will only consider advice that helps strengthen my application for medical school.

 

[BobbyKoch]

The issue is that I have a downward trend and was thinking of boosting my GPA that way. I am arranging for clinical exposure opportunities and there is an EMT shortage in New York City. I was advised earlier not to retake the MCATs -- should I do that January 2019?



I'm a child abuse survivor and have been in this situation for five years. Pretty sure this is one of my pathways out of my situation. I am single-minded about my decision to pursue medicine and I will certainly be not convinced against it. I will only consider advice that helps strengthen my application for medical school.

no, I wasn't suggesting a retake. just saying that if you wait until June 2020 to apply, you will matriculate outside of that 3 year window. it would be a shame to have to retake such a strong score!

I'm not trying to convince you against medicine. not at all. I'm simply saying that finding a less traumatic line of work and attaining a stable enough living situation so that homelessness is not a threat would be beneficial to your career pursuits.

 

[gensurghopeful]

You'd get into a DO school, if not multiple, with your current stats.

Is your primary ready to be sent?

 

[adrenocorticotropicana]

I should explain my downward trend situation better. I am told it was pretty bad. I had untreated PTSD (it's treated now and under control.) Here's my redacted transcript [I reserve the right to delete this later]:

AP credits
BIOL 201 Intro Biol:Cell Biol & Genetic TE 3.00
BIOL 202 Intro Biol:Orgnsml & Evol Biol TE 3.00
ECON 201 Principles of Econ: Microecon TE 3.00
ENLT 249 Intro Lit Crit TE 3.00
ENWR 110 Accelerated Academic Writing TE 3.00
HIST 100T Non-[redacted] Transfer/Test Credit TE 3.00
MATH 131 Calculus I TE 4.00
PHYS 231 Classical & Modern Physics I TE 4.00
Test Credit Total: 26.00

FRLN 000 Non-[redacted] Transfer/Test Credit TE 0.00
[tested out of foreign language requirement]

Transfer Credits
Transfer Credit from [redacted]
Incoming Course
FRE 308
Transferred to Term 2008 Fall as
FREN 300T Non-[redacted] Transfer/Test Credit PT 2.00
Incoming Course
FRE 305
Transferred to Term 2008 Fall as
FREN 300T Non-[redacted] Transfer/Test Credit PT 3.00
Incoming Course
MAT 153
Transferred to Term 2008 Fall as
MATH 132 Calculus II PT 4.00
Incoming Course
MAT 295
Transferred to Term 2008 Fall as
MATH 351 Linear Algebra PT 4.00
Transfer Credit Total: 13.00

Beginning of Undergraduate Record
2008 Fall
BIOL 317 Intro to Neurobiology B+ 3.0
CHEM 181 Chemical Principles A 3.0
CHEM 181L Chemical Principles Lab C 3.0
FREN 334 Adv Oral & Written Expression A 3.0
LNGS 325 Intro to Linguistics A 3.0
LNGS 325 Intro to Linguistics Disc A 1.0
Curr Credits 16.0 Grd Pts 55.900 GPA 3.494
Cuml Credits 16.0 Grd Pts 55.900 GPA 3.494
Honor: Dean's List

2009 Spring
BIOL 204 Intro to Biology Lab/Lecture A- 2.0
CHEM 182 Prin Chemical Reactions I A- 3.0
CHEM 182L Chem Reactions I Lab C 3.0
EVSC 350 Atmosphere & Weather B+ 3.0
EVSC 350L Atmosphere & Weather Lab A 1.0
MATH 300 Intro to Abstract Math B 3.0
MSE 209 Intro Sci & Engr of Materials A- 3.0
STAT 212 Intro to Statistical Analysis B 4.0
Curr Credits 22.0 Grd Pts 70.500 GPA 3.205
Cuml Credits 38.0 Grd Pts 126.400 GPA 3.326

2009 Fall
BIOL 3010 Genetics and Molecular Biology A 4.0
BIOL 4190 Biological Clocks B+ 3.0
CHEM 2810 Prin of Chemical Reactions II A 3.0
CHEM 2811 Chemical Reactions Lab II B 3.0
ECON 2020 Principles of Econ: Macroecon A 3.0
MSE 3050 Thermodynamics & Kinetics A- 3.0
Curr Credits 19.0 Grd Pts 70.000 GPA 3.684
Cuml Credits 57.0 Grd Pts 196.400 GPA 3.446
Honor: Dean's List

2010 Spring
Major: Chemistry - Biochemistry
BIOL 3020 Evolution and Ecology A 3.0
BIOL 3150 Microbiology Laboratory B+ 3.0
CHEM 2820 Prin Chem Thermo & Kinetics B+ 3.0
CHEM 2821 Chem Thermo & Kinetics Lab B- 3.0
CS 1111 Introduction to Programming B 3.0
MATH 2310 Calculus III B 4.0
Curr Credits 19.0 Grd Pts 60.900 GPA 3.205
Cuml Credits 76.0 Grd Pts 257.300 GPA 3.386

2010 Fall
Major: Chemistry - Biochemistry
ANTH 3480 Language and Prehistory B+ 3.0
CHEM 4410 Biological Chemistry I B 3.0
CHIN 1010 Elementary Chinese C+ 4.0
PHYS 2610 Physics III: Electromagnetism B- 4.0
PHYS 2630 Elementary Laboratory I C- 3.0
Curr Credits 17.0 Grd Pts 44.000 GPA 2.588
Cuml Credits 93.0 Grd Pts 301.300 GPA 3.240

2011 Spring
Major: Chemistry - Biochemistry
BIOL 3000 Cell Biology C 3.0
CHEM 4420 Biological Chemistry II B+ 3.0
CHIN 1020 Elementary Chinese C 4.0
PHYS 2620 Modern Physics A- 4.0
PHYS 2640 Elementary Laboratory II D- 3.0
Curr Credits 17.0 Grd Pts 40.800 GPA 2.400
Cuml Credits 110.0 Grd Pts 342.100 GPA 3.110

2011 Fall
Major: Chemistry - Biochemistry
Major: Physics
CHEM 2350 The Chemical Century W 3.0
CHEM 3410 Physical Chemistry I W 3.0
CHEM 4411 Biological Chemistry Lab I W 3.0
PHYS 3170 Intermediate Laboratory I W 3.0
Medical Withdrawal Date: 12/16/2011
[I had untreated PTSD from child abuse -- all three kinds -- from when I was ages 3 to 10, and it came back with a vengeance around this year because I started forming attachments I deeply cared about; however I was not self-aware about it then so I was misdiagnosed.]
Curr Credits 0.0 Grd Pts 0.000 GPA 0.000
Cuml Credits 110.0 Grd Pts 342.100 GPA 3.110

2012 Fall
Academic Standing Effective 2012-01-31: Academic Warning
Major: Chemistry - Biochemistry
Major: Physics
BIOL 4911 Independent Research I A 2.0
CHEM 3410 Physical Chemistry I A 3.0
CHEM 4411 Biological Chemistry Lab I B- 3.0
CHTR 3840 Writing Women in Modern China A 3.0
PHYS 3110 Widely Applied Physics B+ 3.0
PHYS 5310 Optics C 3.0
Curr Credits 17.0 Grd Pts 56.000 GPA 3.294
Cuml Credits 127.0 Grd Pts 398.100 GPA 3.135

2013 Spring
Major: Chemistry
ARTH 3559 New Course: ARTH C 3.0
Course Topic: Women's Photo & Aesthetics
CHEM 3420 Physical Chemistry II W 3.0
CHEM 4421 Biological Chemistry Lab II W 3.0
CHEM 5320 Adv Inorganic Chemistry II W 3.0
PHYS 3040 Physics of the Human Body W 3.0
Curr Credits 3.0 Grd Pts 6.000 GPA 2.000
Cuml Credits 130.0 Grd Pts 404.100 GPA 3.108
[withdrew from all the courses I actually didn't need to graduate]​

I wasn't treated for PTSD until summer of 2015, well after graduation. Since being correctly
diagnosed and appropriately treated, I've been much more well-adjusted. I want to use the DIY
postbac I'm capable of achieving much better and much more stable grades. I need advice on
which coursework to take and the best plan to do this.

I actually wish to enter medicine partially because of my experiences with PTSD and being in and out of hospitals, and dealing with healthcare providers constantly, and struggling with how the healthcare system treated trauma survivors, and also seeing how the system often failed those who aged out of foster care, adult survivors of child sexual abuse et al. My other reasons are partially because I have a deep passion for medical science and I feel I would not be burnt out practicing it all day. I am not sure how to address this in my applications though.

 

[gensurghopeful]

I should explain my downward trend situation better. I am told it was pretty bad. I had untreated PTSD (it's treated now and under control.) Here's my redacted transcript [I reserve the right to delete this later]:

AP credits
BIOL 201 Intro Biol:Cell Biol & Genetic TE 3.00
BIOL 202 Intro Biol:Orgnsml & Evol Biol TE 3.00
ECON 201 Principles of Econ: Microecon TE 3.00
ENLT 249 Intro Lit Crit TE 3.00
ENWR 110 Accelerated Academic Writing TE 3.00
HIST 100T Non-[redacted] Transfer/Test Credit TE 3.00
MATH 131 Calculus I TE 4.00
PHYS 231 Classical & Modern Physics I TE 4.00
Test Credit Total: 26.00

FRLN 000 Non-[redacted] Transfer/Test Credit TE 0.00
[tested out of foreign language requirement]

Transfer Credits
Transfer Credit from [redacted]
Incoming Course
FRE 308
Transferred to Term 2008 Fall as
FREN 300T Non-[redacted] Transfer/Test Credit PT 2.00
Incoming Course
FRE 305
Transferred to Term 2008 Fall as
FREN 300T Non-[redacted] Transfer/Test Credit PT 3.00
Incoming Course
MAT 153
Transferred to Term 2008 Fall as
MATH 132 Calculus II PT 4.00
Incoming Course
MAT 295
Transferred to Term 2008 Fall as
MATH 351 Linear Algebra PT 4.00
Transfer Credit Total: 13.00

Beginning of Undergraduate Record
2008 Fall
BIOL 317 Intro to Neurobiology B+ 3.0
CHEM 181 Chemical Principles A 3.0
CHEM 181L Chemical Principles Lab C 3.0
FREN 334 Adv Oral & Written Expression A 3.0
LNGS 325 Intro to Linguistics A 3.0
LNGS 325 Intro to Linguistics Disc A 1.0
Curr Credits 16.0 Grd Pts 55.900 GPA 3.494
Cuml Credits 16.0 Grd Pts 55.900 GPA 3.494
Honor: Dean's List

2009 Spring
BIOL 204 Intro to Biology Lab/Lecture A- 2.0
CHEM 182 Prin Chemical Reactions I A- 3.0
CHEM 182L Chem Reactions I Lab C 3.0
EVSC 350 Atmosphere & Weather B+ 3.0
EVSC 350L Atmosphere & Weather Lab A 1.0
MATH 300 Intro to Abstract Math B 3.0
MSE 209 Intro Sci & Engr of Materials A- 3.0
STAT 212 Intro to Statistical Analysis B 4.0
Curr Credits 22.0 Grd Pts 70.500 GPA 3.205
Cuml Credits 38.0 Grd Pts 126.400 GPA 3.326

2009 Fall
BIOL 3010 Genetics and Molecular Biology A 4.0
BIOL 4190 Biological Clocks B+ 3.0
CHEM 2810 Prin of Chemical Reactions II A 3.0
CHEM 2811 Chemical Reactions Lab II B 3.0
ECON 2020 Principles of Econ: Macroecon A 3.0
MSE 3050 Thermodynamics & Kinetics A- 3.0
Curr Credits 19.0 Grd Pts 70.000 GPA 3.684
Cuml Credits 57.0 Grd Pts 196.400 GPA 3.446
Honor: Dean's List

2010 Spring
Major: Chemistry - Biochemistry
BIOL 3020 Evolution and Ecology A 3.0
BIOL 3150 Microbiology Laboratory B+ 3.0
CHEM 2820 Prin Chem Thermo & Kinetics B+ 3.0
CHEM 2821 Chem Thermo & Kinetics Lab B- 3.0
CS 1111 Introduction to Programming B 3.0
MATH 2310 Calculus III B 4.0
Curr Credits 19.0 Grd Pts 60.900 GPA 3.205
Cuml Credits 76.0 Grd Pts 257.300 GPA 3.386

2010 Fall
Major: Chemistry - Biochemistry
ANTH 3480 Language and Prehistory B+ 3.0
CHEM 4410 Biological Chemistry I B 3.0
CHIN 1010 Elementary Chinese C+ 4.0
PHYS 2610 Physics III: Electromagnetism B- 4.0
PHYS 2630 Elementary Laboratory I C- 3.0
Curr Credits 17.0 Grd Pts 44.000 GPA 2.588
Cuml Credits 93.0 Grd Pts 301.300 GPA 3.240

2011 Spring
Major: Chemistry - Biochemistry
BIOL 3000 Cell Biology C 3.0
CHEM 4420 Biological Chemistry II B+ 3.0
CHIN 1020 Elementary Chinese C 4.0
PHYS 2620 Modern Physics A- 4.0
PHYS 2640 Elementary Laboratory II D- 3.0
Curr Credits 17.0 Grd Pts 40.800 GPA 2.400
Cuml Credits 110.0 Grd Pts 342.100 GPA 3.110

2011 Fall
Major: Chemistry - Biochemistry
Major: Physics
CHEM 2350 The Chemical Century W 3.0
CHEM 3410 Physical Chemistry I W 3.0
CHEM 4411 Biological Chemistry Lab I W 3.0
PHYS 3170 Intermediate Laboratory I W 3.0
Medical Withdrawal Date: 12/16/2011
[I had untreated PTSD from child abuse -- all three kinds -- from when I was ages 3 to 10, and it came back with a vengeance around this year because I started forming attachments I deeply cared about; however I was not self-aware about it then so I was misdiagnosed.]
Curr Credits 0.0 Grd Pts 0.000 GPA 0.000
Cuml Credits 110.0 Grd Pts 342.100 GPA 3.110

2012 Fall
Academic Standing Effective 2012-01-31: Academic Warning
Major: Chemistry - Biochemistry
Major: Physics
BIOL 4911 Independent Research I A 2.0
CHEM 3410 Physical Chemistry I A 3.0
CHEM 4411 Biological Chemistry Lab I B- 3.0
CHTR 3840 Writing Women in Modern China A 3.0
PHYS 3110 Widely Applied Physics B+ 3.0
PHYS 5310 Optics C 3.0
Curr Credits 17.0 Grd Pts 56.000 GPA 3.294
Cuml Credits 127.0 Grd Pts 398.100 GPA 3.135

2013 Spring
Major: Chemistry
ARTH 3559 New Course: ARTH C 3.0
Course Topic: Women's Photo & Aesthetics
CHEM 3420 Physical Chemistry II W 3.0
CHEM 4421 Biological Chemistry Lab II W 3.0
CHEM 5320 Adv Inorganic Chemistry II W 3.0
PHYS 3040 Physics of the Human Body W 3.0
Curr Credits 3.0 Grd Pts 6.000 GPA 2.000
Cuml Credits 130.0 Grd Pts 404.100 GPA 3.108
[withdrew from everything I didn't need to graduate]​

I wasn't treated for PTSD until summer of 2015, well after graduation. Since being correctly
diagnosed and appropriately treated, I've been much more well-adjusted. I want to use the DIY
postbac I'm capable of achieving much better and much more stable grades. I need advice on
which coursework to take and the best plan to do this.

I actually wish to enter medicine partially because of my experiences with PTSD and being in and out of hospitals, and dealing with healthcare providers constantly, and struggling with how the healthcare system treated trauma survivors, and also seeing how the system often failed those who aged out of foster care, adult survivors of child sexual abuse et al. My other reasons are partially because I have a deep passion for medical science and I feel I would not be burnt out practicing it all day. I am not sure how to address this in my applications though.

Simple - through your personal statement of course

 

[adrenocorticotropicana]

Okay -- but I was told I'd still need to aggressively do 30 credits at least of a DIY postbac. That's why I'm planning to do a masters in biochem. My plan at least is to apply just as I'm finishing the first semester of my masters in biochemistry (or chemistry). Fingers crossed aaaaa?

 

[adrenocorticotropicana]

(Plus I'm not going to lie, I want a masters in biochem in case I don't actually get into medical school. A biochem masters degree from a state school for $7000 sounds like a STEAL compared to working for horrible traumatizing people in my current job lol)

 

[Magus5454]

(Plus I'm not going to lie, I want a masters in biochem in case I don't actually get into medical school. A biochem masters degree from a state school for $7000 sounds like a STEAL compared to working for horrible traumatizing people in my current job lol)

With that MCAT I don't see DO school being an issue. Stop trying to make fall back plans

 

[smukke]

What are those transfer credits you listed? If those are from college classes, I hope you've taken those into account when calculating your GPAs.

Don't take PChem and think really hard about doing the MS, it could potentially bring down your GPA and even if you do well in them they usually are considered to have less impact vs more higher level postbacc classes.

 

[adrenocorticotropicana]

i'm poor. i'm on medicaid. I do really traumatic work to support myself. I can't afford a proper postbac.** you're saying i can explain away my transcript through a personal statement alone??

I also very much appreciate you giving me the dose of reality i need (!!) about the MS not being a proper postbac but i also would emphasize the fact that i have limited resources and that i would like to do something with my life. As far as being cost-effective DIY postbac -- is it a good use of my limited resources, or not really? What should I do this semester?

**(I am able to barely fund my MS because it comes out of money I had been aggressively saving for five years ... through traumatizing work ... for trans-related surgery costs; New York State only recently decided to make it mandatory for insurers to cover trans surgical procedures.)

re: transfer credit: I took some local university courses when I was in high school. My GPA was a 3.79, 13 credits total. Just conversational French (A, 3cr), French phonetics (A, 3cr), Calc II (A, 3cr) and Linear algebra (B+, 3cr). I haven't included as part of my total undergraduate GPA calculation because I didn't think it would change it that dramatically. Does it? My combined undergraduate GPA is now 3.17

 

[smukke]

i'm poor. i'm on medicaid. I do really traumatic work to support myself. I can't afford a proper postbac.** you're saying i can explain away my transcript through a personal statement alone??

Possibly. I think you are in striking range for DO without resorting to drastic measures. The biggest problem is that you Ws come at the end of you degree (granted 5+ years ago), a good 2 semesters of postbacc should allay any doubts.

As far as being cost-effective DIY postbac -- is it a good use of my limited resources, or not really? What should I do this semester?

I'd advise taking higher level undergrad bachelors courses, probably in Bio since you don't have a lot there. Avoid the known GPA killers like PChem. Consider retaking physics if you need to take the labs.

re: transfer credit: I took some local university courses when I was in high school. My GPA was a 3.79, 13 credits total. Just conversational French (A, 3cr), French phonetics (A, 3cr), Calc II (A, 3cr) and Linear algebra (B+, 3cr). I haven't included as part of my total undergraduate GPA calculation because I didn't think it would change it that dramatically. Does it? My combined undergraduate GPA is now 3.17

Probably not but calculate it out. You are about to drop a couple thousand +, don't guess.

PS I'd highly recommend looking for a new job if the environment is so toxic for you.

 

[adrenocorticotropicana]

Avoid the known GPA killers like PChem.

I am sorry. I graduated with a degree in chemistry. I tutor organic chemistry and thermodynamics and kinetics. I live and breathe chemistry. I love the subject. If I couldn't become a physician I would love to be a research chemist. I got an A in Physical Chemistry I. (It's not actually that hard if you remember basic calculus...)

Why am I being told not to take physical chemistry II?! It's the one course holding me back from being able to take graduate level biochemistry and biology coursework. It's just introductory level quantum mechanics for chemistry.... which I've seen before at the physics and engineering level.

 

[adrenocorticotropicana]

But I see what you mean. To you, it seems risky.

I'm very single minded in applying to medical school right now, but I would like to stay realistic and have a plan B.

To me, someone who considers herself a scientist foremost and thus inspired to be a physician because of her combined passion for social justice and the sciences, completing physical chemistry II would allow me to finally tie together the undergraduate work I didn't get to finish.

 

[dial1010usa]

I would suggest to apply to your state schools as your MCAT will compensate your GPA. Your gpa is not that bad. The question do you want to be a doctor or chemist? If you want to be a doctor then apply asap. Just finished your pre-reqs if needed. How's your rest of EC? Have you shadow a DO/MD? With those stats I'm sure you will get in somewhere.

Apply for a fee waiver.

Application Fee Waiver

All the best!!!

 

[adrenocorticotropicana]

I'm planning on focusing on obtaining shadowing hours soon but I take the state EMT exam tomorrow and I really want to rack up the hours as an EMT once I get my cert. I mean I don't want to sound overconfident, but there's an EMT shortage in NYC. (While I'm waiting for it I will apply to many shadowing things). I have already been accepted to a rape crisis advocate program for hospital emergency rooms, with volunteer hours of around 24 hours a month. AFAIK, because of the nature of this program, my shifts as an ER rape crisis advocate would be "high-quality" volunteering hours. I get trained in October and can start shifts afterwards. I am also applying to other volunteer hospital programs. I also definitely plan to apply for a fee waiver.

as far as application-boosting efficacy per dollar (in-state non-matriculated credits at CCNY is $415/credit), can I ask is there any value to taking anatomy and physiology as part of a DIY postbac?

I ask this specifically because

a) A&P 1 at a local college in NYC fits in really well with my schedule and it's cheap with in-state residency
b) It's an annoying prerequisite for backup plans to medical school (accelerated nursing programs, clinical lab technologist, etc. physician's assistant) -- this to me is especially important because as someone who has been through homelessness and almost got sent to foster care, I have learnt in life to always develop backup plans and never to rely on a single plan for success (aka single point of failure).
c) I don't think it's really that hard, though for some reason nursing students think it's hard, and I actually like building maps in my head (I am currently finishing a neuroanatomy coloring book that has Grey's anatomy like detail). Similarly, how do DO schools treat this course postbac wise? I see it encouraged as part on some schools' admissions websites but not required.
d) How does it compare with the following: 300-level sociology courses, social psych (psyc 200-level), and a 300-level 4 credit biology course involving literature analysis, design of follow-up experiments and correspondence with primary authors? There isn't a time conflict esp. with the last one. Just trying to balance my course load since I'll still be working.

 

[Goro]

I would suggest to apply to your state schools as your MCAT will compensate your GPA. Your gpa is not that bad. The question do you want to be a doctor or chemist? If you want to be a doctor then apply asap. Just finished your pre-reqs if needed. How's your rest of EC? Have you shadow a DO/MD? With those stats I'm sure you will get in somewhere.

Apply for a fee waiver.

Application Fee Waiver

All the best!!!

RE: the bolded. It doesn't work that way.

 

[BobbyKoch]

A&P is great. I'd take it. I'm doing an SMP and undergrad A&P was like reading the table of contents compared to med school anatomy.

 

[adrenocorticotropicana]

A&P is great. I'd take it. I'm doing an SMP and undergrad A&P was like reading the table of contents compared to med school anatomy.

Why would undergrad A&P be that great then? It's at the 200-level.

 

[BobbyKoch]

It’s interesting and it’s a good primer for medical school.

 

[adrenocorticotropicana]

Would it at all help with admissions at the 200-level?

 

[adrenocorticotropicana]

Is the following class at all worth taking? It's conflicting with a 3 credit 300-level sociology course (Global Inequality). However, it doesn't conflict with SOC 319: "Sociology of Mental Health" which I feel would definitely be relevant to medical school adcoms.

BIO 35500 - CD2 Analysis of Scientific Literature Using CREATE
4 units

This course has two goals: teach students to read primary literature (journal articles) and humanize science/scientists. We use a newly devised method, C.R.E.A.T.E. (Consider, Read, Elucidate the hypotheses, Analyze the data, and Think of the next Experiment) and supporting materials to give students tools needed for reading and analysis of complex material, interpretation of tables, graphs, charts, etc, and critical analysis of data. Students are challenged to devise their own follow-up experiments for each paper read. Because we read papers in series, and communicate directly with some of the authors, students also get a 'behind the scenes' view of how projects evolve in labs, and about 'the people behind the published papers'.​

Also I'm guessing "Medical Physics" (3 credits, 31500) would be preferable to the above? However, it would cause me considerable work scheduling strain, but what am I losing out by taking the former instead of the latter:

Physical aspects of the skeletal, circulatory, nervous, muscular, respiratory, and renal systems; diagnostic imaging including EKG, EEG, x-rays, CAT, MRI, lasers and fiber optical probes; radiation therapy and safety; nuclear medicine; artificial organs.​

 

[BobbyKoch]

I’ve only had a few interviews, but I didn’t get the sense that anyone was going through my transcript and saying “Ah, Underwater Basket Weaving at the 400 level. Bobby’s a great candidate.”

Maybe some adcoms will do that. But I think you’re over thinking it. If your sGPA needs work take science courses and get As. I’ve always found it easier to do well in classes that interest me.

 

[adrenocorticotropicana]

thanks! if i take a graduate level course as a non-matriculated student together with undergrad coursework this semester, is it part of my undergrad GPA or grad GPA?

 

[BostonGeorge]

Before you spend all this money, if your goal is DO you definitely have a good chance. Read this
https://www.aacom.org/docs/default-...-profile-summary-report.pdf?sfvrsn=4f072597_8

A 515 mcat puts you easily in the top 5% for DO applicants and matriculants. Your gpa isn't completely terrible either. I think you would definitely get interviews if you sent out a good app. The main question is do you have the experiences and recommendation letters necessary to put together a good application? I'd be more worried that your mcat will expire and you'd have to take it again before you eventually got around to applying. Maybe just take a couple classes, work on getting good clinical experience and some good letters and then apply sooner than later. It might be too late for this cycle if you don't have everything together.

 

[adrenocorticotropicana]

I'm specifically applying next cycle: May 2019.

Why would I prepare for this cycle this late?! Am I crazy? Of course I am going to send in all my application materials between May 1 and June 1. Should I wait for spring grades to post after finals in May before submitting my application, or can I simply update my application with my completed Spring grades?

***
I'm going to post a separate thread asking which schools would or would not accept an August 2017 MCAT for an application submitted June 2019? I actually want to support myself tutoring the MCAT; I don't think it's actually that hard to get a 515. I tutor math and science regularly and I was really sleep-deprived when I took it and I had been in the ER the previous night (long story). I feel like I got robbed of a higher score.

 

[Magus5454]

I'm specifically applying next cycle: May 2019.

Why would I prepare for this cycle this late?! Am I crazy? Of course I am going to send in all my application materials between May 1 and June 1. Should I wait for spring grades to post after finals in May before submitting my application, or can I simply update my application with my completed Spring grades?

***
I'm going to post a separate thread asking which schools would or would not accept an August 2017 MCAT for an application submitted June 2019? I actually want to support myself tutoring the MCAT; I don't think it's actually that hard to get a 515. I tutor math and science regularly and I was really sleep-deprived when I took it and I had been in the ER the previous night (long story). I feel like I got robbed of a higher score.

DO cycle means you're not late till Thanksgiving for primary. MCAT is usually good for 3 years.

 

[adrenocorticotropicana]

I'm definitely not applying this cycle. I'm still clocking in my patient contact and shadowing hours, for one. Also when people advise not to retake, is that based on the idea that 1) obtaining the same score or higher the second time around is less likely 2) taking the test twice looks bad to admissions committees?

 

[Magus5454]

I'm definitely not applying this cycle. I'm still clocking in my patient contact and shadowing hours, for one. Also when people advise not to retake, is that based on the idea that 1) obtaining the same score or higher the second time around is less likely 2) taking the test twice looks bad to admissions committees?

Retaking a high score looks bad, IMO. I had to retake my 34 due to it expiring which was fine.

 

[adrenocorticotropicana]

If I get a 520+ I could start tutoring the MCAT. Why is retaking a high score bad? I am a low-income student and need to pay tuition and bills. I didn't even realize the MCAT was a non-calculator test until the night before XD

In August 2017, I didn't take the MCAT that seriously. I was taking it "for fun" to prove something about myself and my teaching ability. I didn't even feel like I actually wanted to go to medical school all that much. I wanted to try the test out, because I tutor premeds constantly and wanted to gain more teaching authority.

For some reason, the moment I started telling my medical providers my score my lay opinion as a patient was suddenly treated much more seriously (even though nothing else had changed), and slowly I started taking myself more seriously. (I was homeless in 2013 due to PTSD.)

 

[Magus5454]

If I get a 520+ I could start tutoring the MCAT. Why is retaking a high score bad? I am a low-income student and need to pay tuition and bills.

I was offered a MCAT tutoring position through TPR with my score. I was offered an audition with Kaplan but had to decline due to a change in job hours.

 

[adrenocorticotropicana]

I can't work for other testing companies because of a non-compete agreement with my current employer (they are competitors for the SAT, but my current employer doesn't cover the MCAT). I thus would have to teach the MCAT freelance. I also have a strong current relationship with my employer and am tutoring some pretty gifted students one-on-one. I would rather keep the relationship; also, I don't think Kaplan and TPR pay their tutors that well. The classroom sizes are large and I'm not really into the business model.

 

[Medic741]

i'm poor. i'm on medicaid. I do really traumatic work to support myself. I can't afford a proper postbac.** you're saying i can explain away my transcript through a personal statement alone??

I also very much appreciate you giving me the dose of reality i need (!!) about the MS not being a proper postbac but i also would emphasize the fact that i have limited resources and that i would like to do something with my life. As far as being cost-effective DIY postbac -- is it a good use of my limited resources, or not really? What should I do this semester?

**(I am able to barely fund my MS because it comes out of money I had been aggressively saving for five years ... through traumatizing work ... for trans-related surgery costs; New York State only recently decided to make it mandatory for insurers to cover trans surgical procedures.)

re: transfer credit: I took some local university courses when I was in high school. My GPA was a 3.79, 13 credits total. Just conversational French (A, 3cr), French phonetics (A, 3cr), Calc II (A, 3cr) and Linear algebra (B+, 3cr). I haven't included as part of my total undergraduate GPA calculation because I didn't think it would change it that dramatically. Does it? My combined undergraduate GPA is now 3.17

I'll call you here. Quit playing the pity card. Commit to your dream - to become a doc & apply to DO programs. *You'll almost certainly get in*

Simple solution -- EMS sucks, apply to medical schol.

 

[Medic741]

You should aks yourself, really ask yourself if your mental health is up to the task of medical school. If you have *any doubts* it is really in your best interest to seek out free/affordable opportunities. Med school is a pressure cooker, the application process too and it will eat you alive if you're not ready for it.

 

[adrenocorticotropicana]

I have been through hell and back several times; pretty sure medical school doesn't compare. I have learnt to love the feeling of stress: the feeling of epinephrine, ACTH and beta-endorphins flowing in my bloodstream, the feeling of being down to the wire and that everything that you hold dear hinges on this one moment. (Only that you're constantly in that moment.) Bring it on. I cherish the opportunity to be in a constant state of emergency. (That's why my username is adrenocorticotropicana. ) I also have learnt to respond robustly to setbacks. Emergencies differ in magnitude. Emergencies can be triaged and prioritized.

 

[adrenocorticotropicana]

I'll call you here. Quit playing the pity card. Commit to your dream - to become a doc & apply to DO programs. *You'll almost certainly get in*

Simple solution -- EMS sucks, apply to medical schol.

okay, but you mean for the 2019-2020 cycle, right?

 

[smukke]

I'm definitely not applying this cycle. I'm still clocking in my patient contact and shadowing hours, for one. Also when people advise not to retake, is that based on the idea that 1) obtaining the same score or higher the second time around is less likely 2) taking the test twice looks bad to admissions committees?

Both. And it makes you look neurotic.

Medicine is a field that requires/rewards careful research, planning and execution; not knowing the test or taking the test when you aren't ready show a lack of it. For one thing Step 1/2/3 can only be taken once (unless you fail) and there's usually a limited time frame when you need to take them (can't take off for weeks at the last minute to suddenly study for them) so school's want students that can plan ahead on when/how/what to study.

 

[adrenocorticotropicana]

not knowing the test or taking the test when you aren't ready show a lack of it.

I didn't identify as or consider myself as a premed student until well after I got my scores. I did not get along well with most premeds in undergrad because my goals (research, learn for the sake of learning) were very different from theirs (get into medical school). However, as a tutor, I found myself tutoring premeds constantly and wanted to "prove" my teaching ability. I took my MCAT with very little studying. Thus, originally, I did not treat medical school as a serious possibility. My identity was a tutor, not a future medical provider.

This changed a lot this year, not least due to the fact that both my friends and my medical providers started treating me differently. Many of my close friends are LGBT, struggle with chronic physical or mental illness (or both), struggle to make ends meet, were formerly in foster care and/or survivors of domestic violence or sexual assault, and regularly deal with medical providers who either do not take their issues seriously, or do not have the training or resources to properly address them (see my signature). For the demographic I come from, it's always been us (the disadvantaged) versus them (the medical providers who treat us). Historically, I used to have a somewhat antagonistic relationship with my medical providers, and I've slowly seen it change to a more cooperative one since taking the MCAT (but perhaps it's also because I've been spending more time on coursework that engages me, as opposed to traumatic forms of work). I slowly saw my medical providers give me the benefit of the doubt when I brought a new issue up during appointments where previously they wouldn't take any of my concerns seriously. Because other people started taking me more seriously, I started taking myself more seriously.

That is, I became a serious premed well AFTER I took the MCAT, not before. However, I took it sleep-deprived and with very minimal studying. I didn't realize until recently that most people spend an immense of time and effort on it because yes, I treated the MCAT like a joke, a sort of $120 bar bet. I definitely feel I can get a higher score if I actually like, studied hard for it. That's why I want to retake.

 

[Magus5454]

I have been through hell and back several times; pretty sure medical school doesn't compare. I have learnt to love the feeling of stress: the feeling of epinephrine, ACTH and beta-endorphins flowing in my bloodstream, the feeling of being down to the wire and that everything that you hold dear hinges on this one moment. (Only that you're constantly in that moment.) Bring it on. I cherish the opportunity to be in a constant state of emergency. (That's why my username is adrenocorticotropicana. ) I also have learnt to respond robustly to setbacks. Emergencies differ in magnitude. Emergencies can be triaged and prioritized.

Trust me when I say this. I've been through hell and back too. Medical school is a special kind of hell. Especially year two.

 

[adrenocorticotropicana]

i take it year 1 involves stuff like knowing each and every step of the apoptosis signalling cascade? cuz I'm down for that. people complain about having to learn all the pathways, but to me -- isn't that the point? shouldn't we know all the pathways?

also, when do I get to use my neuroanatomy coloring book to memorize each and every ganglion and major nerve of the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems and the direct and indirect striatal signalling pathways of the CGBTC and then use that to inform differential diagnosis?

(sorry, I just feel immensely bored when I'm not being pushed to my limits. i guess that is the leftover effect of the PTSD?)

 

[Magus5454]

i take it year 1 involves stuff like knowing each and every step of the apoptosis signalling cascade? cuz I'm down for that. people complain about having to learn all the pathways, but to me -- isn't that the point? shouldn't we know all the pathways?

That and more is just the first 3 weeks

 

[smukke]

I didn't identify as or consider myself as a premed student until well after I got my scores. I did not get along well with most premeds in undergrad because my goals (research, learn for the sake of learning) were very different from theirs (get into medical school). However, as a tutor, I found myself tutoring premeds constantly and wanted to "prove" my teaching ability. I took my MCAT with very little studying. Thus, originally, I did not treat medical school as a serious possibility. My identity was a tutor, not a future medical provider.

That is, I became a serious premed well AFTER I took the MCAT, not before. However, I took it sleep-deprived and with very minimal studying. I didn't realize until recently that most people spend an immense of time and effort on it because yes, I treated the MCAT like a joke, a sort of $120 bar bet. I definitely feel I can get a higher score if I actually like, studied hard for it. That's why I want to retake.

You do realize that technically you weren't eligible to take the MCAT if you weren't planning on applying to medical school/other health related schools, right?

That's why retaking a "good" score is generally a bad idea, regardless of how you do it has the potential of bad outcomes/optics is too big.

This changed a lot this year, not least due to the fact that both my friends and my medical providers started treating me differently. Many of my close friends are LGBT, struggle with chronic physical or mental illness (or both), struggle to make ends meet, were formerly in foster care and/or survivors of domestic violence or sexual assault, and regularly deal with medical providers who either do not take their issues seriously, or do not have the training or resources to properly address them (see my signature). For the demographic I come from, it's always been us (the disadvantaged) versus them (the medical providers who treat us). Historically, I used to have a somewhat antagonistic relationship with my medical providers, and I've slowly seen it change to a more cooperative one since taking the MCAT (but perhaps it's also because I've been spending more time on coursework that engages me, as opposed to traumatic forms of work). I slowly saw my medical providers give me the benefit of the doubt when I brought a new issue up during appointments where previously they wouldn't take any of my concerns seriously. Because other people started taking me more seriously, I started taking myself more seriously.

This has the good beginnings of a great PS, however that last line comes off as a bit immature unless you are able to back it up with a better track record, otherwise it comes off as very shallow and that you've quickly lose confidence in yourself if you didn't get praise.

 

[adrenocorticotropicana]

You do realize that technically you weren't eligible to take the MCAT if you weren't planning on applying to medical school/other health related schools, right?

I was considering the option as like a shot in the dash but certainly not like ... as seriously as I am now.

This has the good beginnings of a great PS, however that last line comes off as a bit immature unless you are able to back it up with a better track record, otherwise it comes off as very shallow and that you've quickly lose confidence in yourself if you didn't get praise.

umm i didn’t take myself seriously because I was homeless during for 4 months in 2013 after I had to run away from my transphobic mom who would throw away my hormones and had to rebuild my life from scratch. Staying in a LGBT youth shelter, my circle became foster kids who had aged out of the system and runaways from the midwest. I was focused on survival.

I never saw myself as a premed until recently. As a tutor (tutoring is not the job that retraumatizes me btw), I had to tutor premeds constantly and teach myself to be two steps ahead of my students. I ended up amassing quite a bit of content knowledge. I also helped my disadvantaged friends advocate for themselves to their medical providers, both remotely and in person.

I don’t want to tell my full story here, also because it gets very graphic and I don’t want to divulge my full medical and social history. I don’t think you get what I meant. It has nothing to do with praise and everything to do with how I was treated as a disempowered patient for years. It wears on you. It changes your self-concept.

I get frustrated with other premeds at times who have never struggled with economic or social adversity, who have never wondered about how they are going to make rent or have never lived with a constant fear of violence.

These premeds become the type of medical providers who end up misdiagnosing my friends’ Lyme disease as anxiety and prescribing ativan instead of antibiotics; thinking my friend must just be having psychosomatic pain when she actually had a life-threatening ectopic pregnancy; not realizing that a patient who initially denies a history of childhood abuse or trauma due to psychogenic amnesia could in fact, actually have an extensive history of childhood trauma.

 

[Magus5454]

Not all of us had it made from the time we were born. You do need to dial the self pity back a bit. One of the questions I got asked a great deal on interviews was how would I change medicine.

My answer was advocate preventive care. Convincing people to make those yearly visits, to catch the little things before they become life threatening

 

[adrenocorticotropicana]

I am not sure where you are detecting self-pity. Most premedical students don’t have an Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACE) score that exceeds 2. Mine is 6. The ACE score is an actual clinical inventory with quantifiable effect sizes. I’m also simply explaining why I took the MCAT as a shot in the dark. I did not consider medical school as a serious or realistic idea until well after I had received my score. I was hospitalized on an inpatient basis around 30 times between 2011 and 2015.

The criteria for taking the MCAT doesn’t require that you’re seriously considering changing up your life to try to apply to medical school, only that you plan to apply or are considering applying.

It’s not self pity to emphasize my socioeconomic background (on the forum) when other people keep inappropriately suggesting SMPs because they think all applicants can afford them. I don’t feel self pity so much more than I feel I am a member of an outgroup and I believe that’s perfectly justified. My outgroup membership is in fact, one of the primary motivators for my engaging and persisting in the application process.

My general impression of my premed or prehealth “peers” in EMT class (which I just finished) is that they come from very sheltered backgrounds with low childhood adversity, other than perhaps, major childhood illness itself. That is, most of my premed peers self-select friends who aren’t on food stamps / medicaid and who aren’t survivors of violence. Because of this self-selection, their baseline ability to appropriately assess social history in a healthcare context is reduced. I think this is a fairly objective statement to say.

I'm also aware that many of my premeds have possibly gone through numerous types of other motivating hardships that aren't counted on the ACE inventory. However, the context in which I usually see these hardships on these forums are usually described more on the lines of "I had leukemia as a kid" or "I went through half a dozen open heart surgeries before I entered puberty" — as opposed to having a history of childhood sexual abuse, foster care placement or lack of childhood food and shelter security. Both types are strong motivational factors for wanting to have one's adversity outgroup be represented in medicine, but one type receives more prestige than the other and that's a fact.

 

[Magus5454]

I am not sure where you are detecting self-pity. Most premedical students don’t have an Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACE) score that exceeds 2. Mine is 6. The ACE score is an actual clinical inventory with quantifiable effect sizes. I’m also simply explaining why I took the MCAT as a shot in the dark. I did not consider medical school as a serious or realistic idea until well after I had received my score. I was hospitalized on an inpatient basis around 30 times between 2011 and 2015.

The criteria for taking the MCAT doesn’t require that you’re seriously considering changing up your life to try to apply to medical school, only that you plan to apply or are considering applying.

It’s not self pity to emphasize my socioeconomic background (on the forum) when other people keep inappropriately suggesting SMPs because they think all applicants can afford them. I don’t feel self pity so much more than I feel I am a member of an outgroup and I believe that’s perfectly justified. My outgroup membership is in fact, one of the primary motivators for my engaging and persisting in the application process.

My general impression of my premed or prehealth “peers” in EMT class (which I just finished) is that they come from very sheltered backgrounds with low childhood adversity, other than perhaps, major childhood illness itself. That is, most of my premed peers self-select friends who aren’t on food stamps / medicaid and who aren’t survivors of violence. Because of this self-selection, their baseline ability to appropriately assess social history in a healthcare context is reduced. I think this is a fairly objective statement to say.

I'm also aware that many of my premeds have possibly gone through numerous types of other motivating hardships that aren't counted on the ACE inventory. However, the context in which I usually see these hardships on these forums are usually described more on the lines of "I had leukemia as a kid" or "I went through half a dozen open heart surgeries before I entered puberty" — as opposed to having a history of childhood sexual abuse, foster care placement or lack of childhood food and shelter security. Both types are strong motivational factors for wanting to have one's adversity outgroup be represented in medicine, but one type receives more prestige than the other and that's a fact.

Look, they are suggesting SMP's as they are the best path to a MD school with your MCAT and GPA. Loans are available for them. I know how you get your money now, I pay attention to posts.

I grew up in a single parent household in poverty, with bouts of an abusive and alcoholic step parent thrown in. I was also bullied for the majority of 7th and 8th grade to the point where I missed 70 days of school over the year. I'm sure my ACE score is near yours or possibly higher. Things got better for me, the step parent was thrown out, my mom got a better paying job. We moved towns and I got a fresh start, I still deal with the emotional scars of that over 20 years later.

I've also told you you have a shot at DO school as it is, though you constantly seem to want to have a back up plan if you don't get in.

 

[adrenocorticotropicana]

What do you mean, as it is? I’m told that my downward trend was pretty bad. Is that something I can just fix with a personal statement? Part of my plan to matriculate into an MS program is because matriculated credits are cheaper.

I want to also thank you for your perspective. Sorry if I sound a little high strung over text. I’m currently quite anxious about the upcoming year and how i’m going to pay for things. My anxiety about SMP loans is that i’m going to end up with a ton of debt but not get in anywhere.

(Also can one secure loans for an SMP with a credit score of 604 lol)

 

[Magus5454]

What do you mean, as it is? I’m told that my downward trend was pretty bad. Is that something I can just fix with a personal statement? Part of my plan to matriculate into an MS program is because matriculated credits are cheaper.

I want to also thank you for your perspective. Sorry if I sound a little high strung over text. I’m currently quite anxious about the upcoming year and how i’m going to pay for things. My anxiety about SMP loans is that i’m going to end up with a ton of debt but not get in anywhere.

(Also can one secure loans for an SMP with a credit score of 604 lol)

Federal Unsubsidized loans dont require a credit check. They should cover most of a SMP. I got into medical school(KCU if you dont feel like post stalking)with a 3.17cGpa. I explained in my personal statement what happened and what turned it around for me.

Oh, I went and found the ACE, I scored an 8

 

[adrenocorticotropicana]

Federal Unsubsidized loans dont require a credit check. They should cover most of a SMP.

wait. hold up. really? I thought SMPs were FAFSA-ineligible. for one, most SMP websites do not mention financial aid or scholarships for financial hardship, merely tuition, which is why I had automatically consigned these programs to the domain of the wealthy.