Cali Programs

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hey all, i've gotten a number of interviews from california IM programs, and need to cancel a few. the ones i'm thinking of bumping are the kaiser programs (oakland, SF, socal, santa clara), cal-pacific, and santa clara valley. any advice and/or recs? for those interested, cali programs i've heard from are harbor-ucla, usc, uci, ucsd, scripps/green, in addition to those above (except kaiser-santa clara). thanks!

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Of the programs you listed I wouldn't be too quick to pull the trigger on Cal-pacific or Santa clara , both of those programs place decently into fellowships and are in the bay area. They aren't as academic as some of the other UC programs however provide great training. I would go to Cal pac or SCV over UCI or USC any day of the week. It doesn't hurt to check them out. I spent some time at Stanford who rotates through SCV and the SCV residents were just as strong in some cases clinically stronger than the SU residents.

Good luck for your west coast quest

West is the Best!!!
Golyte
 
it seems that you are looking to do your residency in southern california, rather than northern. if that is the case, i don't think you are missing out on anything by canceling on the programs that you mentioned. unless you really want to be in northern california, i would not waste a trip up there just for those programs. you have some nice interviews. ucsd, harbor-ucla are much stronger programs than any of the ones you are considering giving up. good luck.
 
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appreciate the tips, folks! actually don't have a preference re: southern vs. northern california...in fact, would be happy just to get to the west coast!

best of luck to everyone applying this year...
 
just a few notes:

Kaiser LA: many people are actually quite impressed by the program. The PD is a pretty nice guy, and people seem quite happy there. However, it's still a Kaiser which is not the most widely respected name around.

santa clara valley: One of my friend's friends is very unhappy there, so I cancelled my interview there last year. But another one of my friends from the San Jose area has done quite well for himself there, getting a GI fellowship.

harbor-ucla: i've heard it's an amazing program where you'll learn a lot but have to work really hard

usc: you'll probably be very impressed when you interview there. But I would pass...

uci: people seem to be very happy there, but I wasn't very impressed. i also think it's very annoying that as an intern you have to take your 4 weeks of vacation as one block. crazy computer system. the hospital and the Long Beach VA are far away from each other...

ucsd: i'm sure it's good, but it's malignant

scripps/green: of all the programs you've mentioned this would be my personal top choice. nice PD. awesome location: on a golf course on the ocean. amazing...
 
one more program you should have considered:

UC Davis: yes. it's in Sacramento, but universally I've never heard anyone say anything bad about this program. I ranked it pretty high myself.
 
mediocre said:
just a few notes:

Kaiser LA: many people are actually quite impressed by the program. The PD is a pretty nice guy, and people seem quite happy there. However, it's still a Kaiser which is not the most widely respected name around.

santa clara valley: One of my friend's friends is very unhappy there, so I cancelled my interview there last year. But another one of my friends from the San Jose area has done quite well for himself there, getting a GI fellowship.

harbor-ucla: i've heard it's an amazing program where you'll learn a lot but have to work really hard

usc: you'll probably be very impressed when you interview there. But I would pass...

uci: people seem to be very happy there, but I wasn't very impressed. i also think it's very annoying that as an intern you have to take your 4 weeks of vacation as one block. crazy computer system. the hospital and the Long Beach VA are far away from each other...

ucsd: i'm sure it's good, but it's malignant

scripps/green: of all the programs you've mentioned this would be my personal top choice. nice PD. awesome location: on a golf course on the ocean. amazing...

just curious...why was your friend unhappy at SCV?
 
Mediocre, you didn't say anything about Cal pacific...i am interested in what other's opinion of cal pacific and other calfornia IM programs as well. I heard Cal pacific is not bad...even for getting fellowships. Please share your opinions for those of us who are young and naive. thanks!
 
SCVMC: not really sure why my friend's friend is not happy at the program but i think some of it probably has to do with 1. she's away from home; 2. although it's a nice county hospital, it's still a county hospital so you're going to have to work pretty hard. Anyway, I'm sure it's a good program still

Cal Pacific: I really don't know much about the program, so that's why i didn't comment. I heard it's a nice cushy place where people love to go for prelim year. Otherwise I'm sure it's nice. But I didn't bother to apply there...
 
thanks so much for the tips, mediocre. you seem to have a good impression of the scripps clinic program - do you (or does anyone else) know anything about the scripps mercy program?
 
Does anyone have any input about Cedars-Sinai? While I'm in California I'm interviewing there, Harbor-UCLA, and UCSD.
 
cedars. nice hospital, nice area. fairly benign program. residents seem to be happy. very solid B type of a program. should be competitive for fellowships, although they don't take too many of their own residents.

Lin713 said:
Does anyone have any input about Cedars-Sinai? While I'm in California I'm interviewing there, Harbor-UCLA, and UCSD.
 
Scripps Mercy: at first I didn't really highly consider the program since it's a community program, but at the interview I was quite impressed. They have a pretty awesome PD, and everyone is really happy there. When I interviewed they were Q12 O/N. From what I can remember they have fairly decent fellowship placement. Through a lot of the small details, I could tell that they took care of their residents pretty well.

Scripps Green: just another quick addition; they are adjacent to the Scripps Research Institute, a fairly prestigious research institute. Also, they encourage their residents to rotate for up to 2 months or so at the world-famous Mayo Clinic. Downside: some would consider their small size (8 per class) and lack of ER as less than ideal, but that all depends on your personality. Coming from a hospital where I had come to hate the ED, lack of an ER sounds appealing now.

Cedars Sinai: largest community hospital in the country (world?) with fairly close affiliation with UCLA. They are one of the more academic community programs Last year things seemed a little uncertain with the proposed merger with WLA-VA, but I don't know where that stands now. Otherwise resident seemed to be happy there. Location is awesome right in the middle of W Hollywood/Beverly Hills area, so I think that itself makes the program quite competitive. Good fellowship placement within the UCLA system. But rents and traffic in the area are awful.


Good luck to all. The interview fun starts on Monday at my program. I would advise you to pay attention to the small details. If the programs care enough to take care of those, then I would bet that they would take care of the big things as well.
 
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Can someone comment on USC? I was told that their board passing rate is 40 to 50%. But, I couldn't find this information on their website. If it is true, that figure is discouraging.
 
40 - 50? that is just ridiculous. don't always believe what you hear.

University of Southern California/LAC+USC Medical Center Program
Los Angeles, CA

Number of Examinees 164
Number Passing 136
Percent Passing 83
95% Confidence Interval 75 - 91

board pass rates can be found on abim.

http://www.abim.org/passrate/passindex.htm

hammersmith said:
Can someone comment on USC? I was told that their board passing rate is 40 to 50%. But, I couldn't find this information on their website. If it is true, that figure is discouraging.
 
for convenience, i cut and pasted the board pass rates for im programs in ca (data from 2001-2003).

Program Name
City and State Number of Examinees Number Passing Percent Passing 95% Confidence Interval

Kern Medical Center Program
Bakersfield, CA 20 17 85 70 - 100

University of California (San Francisco)/Fresno Program
Fresno, CA 28 23 82 69 - 95

Scripps Clinic/Scripps Green Hospital Program
La Jolla, CA 15 15 100 84 - 100

Loma Linda University Program
Loma Linda, CA 81 72 89 80 - 98

St. Mary Medical Center Program
Long Beach, CA 22 20 91 77 - 100

Cedars-Sinai Medical Center Program
Los Angeles, CA 88 83 94 85 - 100

Charles R. Drew University Program
Los Angeles, CA 33 24 73 61 - 85

Southern California Kaiser Permanente Medical Care (Los Angeles) Program
Los Angeles, CA 26 26 100 87 - 100

UCLA Medical Center Program
Los Angeles, CA 92 92 100 91 - 100

University of Southern California/LAC+USC Medical Center Program
Los Angeles, CA 164 136 83 75 - 91

VA Greater Los Angeles Program
Los Angeles, CA 41 38 93 82 - 100

White Memorial Medical Center Program
Los Angeles, CA 16 13 81 65 - 97

Alameda County Medical Center Program
Oakland, CA 39 34 87 76 - 98

Kaiser Permanente Medical Group (Northern California/Oakland) Program
Oakland, CA 29 27 93 80 - 100

University of California (Irvine) Program
Orange, CA 87 78 90 81 - 99

Huntington Memorial Hospital Program
Pasadena, CA 17 17 100 85 - 100

University of California (Davis) Program
Sacramento, CA 86 85 99 90 - 100

Naval Medical Center (San Diego) Program
San Diego, CA 35 33 94 82 - 100

Scripps Mercy Hospital Program
San Diego, CA 28 28 100 87 - 100

University of California (San Diego) Program
San Diego, CA 81 80 99 90 - 100

California Pacific Medical Center Program
San Francisco, CA 38 36 95 84 - 100

Kaiser Permanente Medical Group (Northern California)/San Francisco Program
San Francisco, CA 25 24 96 83 - 100

St. Mary's Hospital and Medical Center Program
San Francisco, CA 20 15 75 60 - 90

University of California (San Francisco) Program
San Francisco, CA 152 147 97 89 - 100

Santa Clara Valley Medical Center Program
San Jose, CA 40 37 93 82 - 100

Santa Barbara Cottage Hospital Program
Santa Barbara, CA 19 18 95 80 - 100

Kaiser Permanente Medical Group (Northern California)/Santa Clara Program
Santa Clara, CA 25 23 92 79 - 100

UCLA-San Fernando Valley Program
Sepulveda, CA 64 59 92 82 - 100

Stanford University Program
Stanford, CA 81 80 99 90 - 100

San Joaquin General Hospital Program
Stockton, CA 13 12 92 75 - 100

Los Angeles County-Harbor-UCLA Medical Center Program
Torrance, CA 50 50 100 90 - 100

David Grant Medical Center Program
Travis A F B, CA 23 23 100 86 - 100
 
my thoughts on programs in ca:

academic

A+: ucsf/stanford
A/A-: ucla
A-: ucsd/ucd
B+: uci
B: usc/loma linda

academic affilated county programs: only ones worth mentioning are harbor-ucla, ucla-oliveview, santa clara valley.

the community programs are worth a look depending on what part of californina you are interested in but i don't think any are a must see.
 
A few impressions:

UCLA: Really tough intern year but residents are excellent. Not as much camraderie as other programs. Seemed like a little more competition between residents for some reason.

UCSD: not as malignant as people make it out to be. Residents seemed happy and well trained. Great location.

Scripps Green - Very intimate feel, close-knit, residents very tight. Private population though which may be downside for some. Fellowships were mostly to SG positions.

CMPC - didn't think much of the program at first, but look at their fellowship matches for the past two years. it's pretty impressive. Not sure how they do it. Very friendly atmosphere

UCLA-harbor - they work very hard and as a result they come out extremely well prepared. Their senior residents at morning report were impressive. Fellowship matches were as good as top non-county programs. Very collegial and happy residents despite work level.

UCI: Really not too impressed but probably a step up on USC.

Hope that helps.

USC - kind of like a zoo except less organized. Great pathology like harbor but much more chaotic.
 
I'm gonna have to step up and speak for my program. Keep in mind, though, that I'm just a prelim. :) My impression of most of my fellow residents that they're happy overall. I know that all things considered, I'm happy here. I love the attendings and my classmates and the intern class in general (categoricals, prelims, and transitionals) is pretty tight. There are times, however, when I feel that the prelims get the short end of the stick - especially in some recent scheduling stuff that's been going down. And the cafeteria food, while essentially free, is nothing to write home about.

I think overall the clinical training is excellent and we see a lot of primary pathology and advanced presentations of various diseases. There's a goodly amount of resident autonomy and I like having 1 attending per ward team, meaning that I can spend more of my time getting work done (or rather making sure that my orders are carried out) rather than hunting down a variety of different attendings.

I think the ICU rotation is one of the stronger points of the residency. The ICU attendings work as hard, if not harder, than the housestaff and are good teachers for the most part. And if you are really aggressive, or just happen to have a ridiculous black cloud (like me), you can get a lot of procedures during that month. I enjoyed it enough that I'm trying to see if anyone wants to switch their ICU month for my ward month.

We do work hard, though, and while I originally heard that life at Valley was relatively cush, our patient volume has picked up dramatically over the past few months and will only get busier with the closing of San Jose Medical Center.

The primary regrets that I have about the program currently are that I have continuity clinic as a prelim and that because I'm doing my intern year, I have to start down here next year when I start my anesthesia residency (where the CA-1s take call on their own - with attending backup of course - while my classmates at Stanford get 2 months free of call). And, well, the ED rotation isn't the best in the world simply because you're treated as a workhorse.

If you're primarily interested in training in the Bay Area, I highly recommend you check us out.
 
bump. please update any info from your cali interview experiences. appreciate the help. thanks.
 
medstudent06 said:
bump. please update any info from your cali interview experiences. appreciate the help. thanks.

I just want to add a little comment regarding LA Kaiser program. I think, before you decide which program to go to, consider:

1. Academic vs private practice: Face it, eventually; you will have to decide whether you want to work in the real world or cont. on in academic practice. If you want to be a professor at UCLA/USC, then obvious those places will be great for you to continue your academic research interest etc... but, for the rest of us who want to work in private sectors, you have learn how to practice in a private setting and unfortunately that is not something these academic centers will teach you. Working at Kaiser, i can tell you that our residents are heavily recruited by private hospitals around southern California. However, all of us are basically guarantee a job after graduation at Kaiser in almost anywhere. I can tell you that a lot of our attendings (younger ones) are from UCLA, USC etc..., so what is the point? going to a hardcore, malignant academic program to bust your head and end up working for Kaiser? Why not just start off in the system?

2. So you want to do fellowship? A lot of people decided that private hospitals such as Cedars, Kaiser, Scripps can't offer you that fellowship opportunity at academic places.. However, this goes back to the first question, what do you want to do eventually? Academic vs private practice. Do you want to do bench research for 7 years in the STAR program? or do you want to do Nephrology for 2 years, and come out practicing? Choices are yours, but you have to start planning a head. IF you are interested in going to private practice, then why not Kaiser LA? They offer 3 spots in Cardiology, 3 spots in Nephrology and 2 spots in GI and you only have 9 people to compete against. They have 10 cat. spots and 8 fellowship spots! That is pretty good odds compare to a bigger program where is there is bound to have more people interested in competitive fellowships. Ask around on your interviews, how many fellowship spots they have and most importantly, how many INTERNAL candidates did they take! Your best shot of a competitive fellowship is where you do your residency at.

3. Finally, what type of life do you want to have? Do you want to be so busy that you don't have time for your regular life? study? read? and most importantly for fellowship, research time? Again, the choice is up to you. Somebody posted the board pass rate, i would look at that very closely. How would a program like Kaiser have 100% pass rate where USC only 83%? Is it because they have more time to study? or better training?

Just some food for thoughts....
 
Vision said:
I just want to add a little comment regarding LA Kaiser program. I think, before you decide which program to go to, consider:

1. Academic vs private practice: Face it, eventually; you will have to decide whether you want to work in the real world or cont. on in academic practice. If you want to be a professor at UCLA/USC, then obvious those places will be great for you to continue your academic research interest etc... but, for the rest of us who want to work in private sectors, you have learn how to practice in a private setting and unfortunately that is not something these academic centers will teach you. Working at Kaiser, i can tell you that our residents are heavily recruited by private hospitals around southern California. However, all of us are basically guarantee a job after graduation at Kaiser in almost anywhere. I can tell you that a lot of our attendings (younger ones) are from UCLA, USC etc..., so what is the point? going to a hardcore, malignant academic program to bust your head and end up working for Kaiser? Why not just start off in the system?

2. So you want to do fellowship? A lot of people decided that private hospitals such as Cedars, Kaiser, Scripps can't offer you that fellowship opportunity at academic places.. However, this goes back to the first question, what do you want to do eventually? Academic vs private practice. Do you want to do bench research for 7 years in the STAR program? or do you want to do Nephrology for 2 years, and come out practicing? Choices are yours, but you have to start planning a head. IF you are interested in going to private practice, then why not Kaiser LA? They offer 3 spots in Cardiology, 3 spots in Nephrology and 2 spots in GI and you only have 9 people to compete against. They have 10 cat. spots and 8 fellowship spots! That is pretty good odds compare to a bigger program where is there is bound to have more people interested in competitive fellowships. Ask around on your interviews, how many fellowship spots they have and most importantly, how many INTERNAL candidates did they take! Your best shot of a competitive fellowship is where you do your residency at.

3. Finally, what type of life do you want to have? Do you want to be so busy that you don't have time for your regular life? study? read? and most importantly for fellowship, research time? Again, the choice is up to you. Somebody posted the board pass rate, i would look at that very closely. How would a program like Kaiser have 100% pass rate where USC only 83%? Is it because they have more time to study? or better training?

Just some food for thoughts....

very informative post. thanks. are u from the kaiser la program? so how many of the kaiser la residents end up matching at kaiser la? i'm thinking about cardiology or gastro. w/ smaller number of residents, do you find that you have more/longer call schedule?
 
medstudent06 said:
very informative post. thanks. are u from the kaiser la program? so how many of the kaiser la residents end up matching at kaiser la? i'm thinking about cardiology or gastro. w/ smaller number of residents, do you find that you have more/longer call schedule?

Well, for seniors who grad. in 2004. 3/3 in nephrology, none in cardiology or GI (no one applied) 1/1 doing ID at Cedars

For seniors who are grad this year. 1/2 in cardiology (here), 1/1 Nephrology (here), 1/1 Endocrine at UCI, 1/1 GI at kaiser, rest all got position at Kaiser as either a hospitalist or clinical attending.

My year (PGY 2 right now) 3 people intersted in nephrology, one already accepted offer a UCSD, one is staying in California (gotten interview at Harbor, Kaiser, Cedars etc... have not accepted any offer as far as i am aware of) the other also has multiple interviews (not sure, he was on elective so i haven't talk to him) 1 is doing cardiology who has interview line up at U of Miami, Colorado and another place i can't remember, but most likly will stay here as well. 1 is doing GI, only applied to California and Arizona, so far interview at Mayo arizona, Kaiser. 1 interested in Rheumatology, 1 in Geratrics, rest primary care.

We are Q5-6 on either wards or elective. The down side is that we don't really have a call free month. However, the system is changing next year when we will have night float which will supposely give us call free months. Don't know how that is gonna work out, but we will see. We can do this with min man power because we have great support from program director (hired extra hospitalists who do admissions for those non-teaching cases) and we have an inpatient family practice team which takes Q4 calls. Our intern cap at 7 patients total (which is great considering when i was a sub-I, i had 7 patients consistently) and 3 new admission per call. The other down side is that we admit daily which could be a pain in the butt, but you can't have it all right... :) Anyways, happy to answer any more questions.
 
any more feedback from cali programs/ thanks.
 
btw, for those thinking about ranking kaiser santa clara, there's gonna be 5-6 new PGY2 transferring into program this july, since currently class has 6 extra prelims due to kaiser not matching all their categorical spots last year.
 
I was wondering if other people had more thoughts/impressions on the southern california programs, particularly UCLA, Cedars, Kaiser, Harbor, Olive-View.
 
<FYI, I'm cutting my old post about this topic (from 2/20/2007) and adding it here to eliminate unnecessary threads.>

Hey everyone,

What are peoples' thoughts about these two residency programs? I'm having a tough time deciding on which to rank higher and I would love to hear your perceptions about them both.

Thanks for any insight you can provide! For the record, here are my views...

UC Davis
Teaching: Teaching is done but on a more case-by-case and "as needed basis." No specific structure outside of conferences/morning reports. One resident suggested that there is not much of a pressure/need to study as frequently as one might hope that a resident should study (that make any sense?)

Residents: Seem like an amazing group of people, generally very happy and work well together. Nice cohort.

Rapport with other services: Uncertain of how different services get along with each other. Not much comment about this.

Program Director: Dr. Henderson is amazing, really cares about the program and his residents. The program is receptive to the resident's concerns/criticisms, and makes positive changes as needed.

Other tidbits: May be starting a "Health Policy" track for residents in their 2nd and 3rd years; May be collaboration with UCSF to increase Global Health resources/projects for the residents.

Sacramento: I grew up here, not that exciting itself but I haven't been back for the past 10 years! Lot more traffic now compared to before. Cost of living is great! Has a lot to offer in regards to proximity of other places (ie, Bay Area, Tahoe, Napa Valley). There is also a good "outdoors" place with bike trails, hiking. And it's the capitol of California, so someone interested in health policy/advocacy can have wonderful exposure to this aspect of health care.

UCSD
Teaching: There is a good amount of teaching conducted at UCSD, regardless of the service and location (VA vs UCSD Hillcrest vs Thornton). Aside from conferences/morning reports, there are structured didactic and lecture sessions with you team attending during call days and some pre-call days.

Residents: Most of the residents seem happy, although there are a few that are tired and just want to take it easy. The residents are all very competent, reading up on disease processes, and seem like a great cohort. Not sure how well they interact with each other outside of the hospital.

Rapport with other services: In general, good rapport with other services. Minimal "dumping" from one service to another.

Program Director: Dr. Schoene is amazing, very energetic and enthusiastic about the program, with teaching, and with maximizing resident training. I heard rumors that he may be stepping down, but I am not sure about this.

Other tidbits: Excellent HIV/AIDS service. Excellent ICU service. International Health exposure abundant. Ancillary services are FANTASTIC at UCSD Hillcrest, okay at the VA.

San Diego: It's beautiful, costly depending on where you want to live, but is amazing for people who like the outdoors. The Night Life is lacking somewhat, although that's okay with me.
 
can anyone comment on USC? their low ABIM pass rate is kind of concerning...i heard it's also a beatdown first year, q4 on wards and q3 on the ICU...anyone know anyone there or based on experience and can comment? being in LA is nice though...do you know if any cali programs subsidize housing costs?
 
can anyone comment on USC? their low ABIM pass rate is kind of concerning...i heard it's also a beatdown first year, q4 on wards and q3 on the ICU...anyone know anyone there or based on experience and can comment? being in LA is nice though...do you know if any cali programs subsidize housing costs?
http://drslounge.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=387569&highlight=cali

This thread doesn't say much about USC but it's still a good review of Cali programs (in the spirit of the resurrected thread)
 
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