- Joined
- Aug 11, 2013
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With the ability to trade stocks so easily on phones, do any of you do it? Seems like it could be a way to bring in good money on days off. Just wanted to see what you all think of this.
Lol 😅😅😅
I dabble a little. I’ve sold and bought back 23k+ contracts so far this year. 25% ytd gain in 5 months. 65% ytd in 12 months. 94 percent in 3 years since i started doing options.
I’ll just leave my last 12 month performance here. I didn’t just get there immediately. 2 years of experimenting with different strategies led to finally finding a winning formula and i stick very very very closely with that formula and do not deviate - i stomach massive volatility and watch the markets obsessively. The maximum account value i have lost in 1 day is 40k. It is not for everyone. Your question makes it sound like you don’t have a deep understanding of markets, investing etc. you make it sound like it’s easy money, it’s not. maybe after you put in 1000 hours of education, you could consider picking stocks, but even then, you’re probably better off investing in sp500. Unless you have an absolute passion and read financial statements, quarterly earnings, and just really follow the pulse on the market, then you could try.
Graduate Medical Education? I kid, I kid.Long GME.
I know there’s no way I’d ever convince you, but you are massively MASSIVELY underestimating your risk if that’s the return you generated in 12 months. You won’t know your strategy isn’t working anymore (or if it ever worked and you’re just on a random walk) until you are way way down.
There’s a reason that rooms full of math PhDs backed by warehouses of servers spend all day everyday trying to crack 12% return. I guarantee you haven’t cracked the code as a part-time doctor, part time options trader.
And 3 years is but a blip in the market. It’s not a trend.
I do extensive risk management. But I’m not going to get into it here. I’ve done it extensively in previous threads.
If anyone is interested in understanding my risk management, you can send me a message.
The only thing i will say is that the only people who claim ‘omg omg risk!!!!!!’ Are the people who don’t understand the fluidity of options, how you can change things, and manage risk in doing so. One contract can be swapped for another, strike prices can be dropped, number of contracts can be dropped - it is extremely fluid.
I have to ask then why you aren’t making a killing as a top hedge fund manager with your awesome, risk controlled, 33% yearly returns? Bernie Madoff would be in awe of you, even he didn’t have to promise that good of a return with his literal scam.I do extensive risk management. But I’m not going to get into it here. I’ve done it extensively in previous threads.
If anyone is interested in understanding my risk management, you can send me a message.
The only thing i will say is that the only people who claim ‘omg omg risk!!!!!!’ Are the people who don’t understand the fluidity of options, how you can change things, and manage risk in doing so. One contract can be swapped for another, strike prices can be dropped, number of contracts can be dropped - it is extremely fluid.
Long term capital management also did extensive risk management, with the guys who created the theories underlying options pricing on their board. They still blew themselves up and almost took down the financial system. The options market can be fickle and depends on your counterparties to be there. Someone HAS to take the other side of your trade in options, most commonly now that would be institutions like insurance companies or investment banks. They’re hedging certain risks for themselves. If they decide those aren’t needed, liquidity won’t be there. I’d personally rather depend on American ingenuity and desire to always make more money/to grow earnings which over time translates to growth in the stock market rather than whether I am able to get an options trade to work. The finance industry is full of smart people doing this for a living. I’ll take the slow path to consistent wealth than the quicker path that has a non-zero chance of blowing up in my face and possibly ruining me.
We’ve hashed this out before but like most things, personal experience is the best teacher. Time will be a cruel teacher.I have to ask then why you aren’t making a killing as a top hedge fund manager with your awesome, risk controlled, 33% yearly returns? Bernie Madoff would be in awe of you, even he didn’t have to promise that good of a return with his literal scam.
Surely Goldman Sachs is interested in your strategy and is ready for you to run a team for them and make 100x what you made as a physician?
I've been out of residency for about 4-5 years now. I day trade on my days off and rarely while at shift if it is dead. In the larger picture of experimenting with selling options (with many many failures) I have made some really high returns. I am not claiming to be some investment guru and I am aware of the risk of options. However, when you SELL the options (specifically puts) rather than partaking in purchasing them, you are at a huge advantage with delta/gamma/theta/vega. I recall reading a few months ago on this forum that someone (maybe it was @cyanide12345678?) sells tesla puts and makes a killing. I started selling weekly puts on TSLA as well using 6 figures of liquid cash and typically return around 4-5% per week selling them on red days. Sometimes I have to extend my put a few weeks when the price dips below my put value to not be assigned. Either way, just an example but this is extremely low effort and at times can produce a shift or two of pay on a day off depending how much liquid cash you have.
I've been out of residency for about 4-5 years now. I day trade on my days off and rarely while at shift if it is dead. In the larger picture of experimenting with selling options (with many many failures) I have made some really high returns. I am not claiming to be some investment guru and I am aware of the risk of options. However, when you SELL the options (specifically puts) rather than partaking in purchasing them, you are at a huge advantage with delta/gamma/theta/vega. I recall reading a few months ago on this forum that someone (maybe it was @cyanide12345678?) sells tesla puts and makes a killing. I started selling weekly puts on TSLA as well using 6 figures of liquid cash and typically return around 4-5% per week selling them on red days. Sometimes I have to extend my put a few weeks when the price dips below my put value to not be assigned. Either way, just an example but this is extremely low effort and at times can produce a shift or two of pay on a day off depending how much liquid cash you have.
I know that putting in the S&P, forgetting about it, keep putting it in will end up with a high likely hood of being very wealthy. Like everything we do in life, to me this is boring and I just can't get myself to do it. I don't day trade but trade a handful of stocks and I will say that I have failed miserable for the most part. I either just have no idea what to pick or just unlucky.
I could just put money into index funds but its just boring. So I will continue to pick individual stocks, like playing poker/gambling. I know its bad for you, but its entertainment for me.
I do sell options too but prob has as many misses as wins. Sold NVIDIA covered calls 6 months out and who knew it was going to essentially double. Sold Tesla Covered called to 9 months out and again, who knew it was going to climb significantly.
Its essentially entertainment and learning experience at this point for me.
I have to ask then why you aren’t making a killing as a top hedge fund manager with your awesome, risk controlled, 33% yearly returns? Bernie Madoff would be in awe of you, even he didn’t have to promise that good of a return with his literal scam.
Surely Goldman Sachs is interested in your strategy and is ready for you to run a team for them and make 100x what you made as a physician?
I think I am a serial shoot for the moon and broad market ETFs is just too boring. I know, I know my thinking is wrong but there are things in life you do when you know is probably not the best bet. I always recommend Broad market investments to anyone who asks but just not what I enjoy doing. I prob lost 2M+ by doing individual stocks (yes many went to zero) instead of doing S&P 500. I don't think I have ever bought/held a broad market fund in anything other than 529s b/c there is no choice for individual stock picking.Some people can’t control themselves with trading and want to do those things. Just size it right (5% ideally doesn’t mess most people up) so it doesn’t cause an issue for you (sounds like that’s what you’re doing). If it keeps your hands off the rest of your portfolio, all the better.
Though i don’t need to make other people money, I’m happy making myself 20-30 percent a year. And the problem with managing other people’s money is that the moment there is a dip, people get fearful and pull money out. That’s the exact opposite behavior of what is needed to make money.
And it’s all “low risk”, so I look forward to seeing him on the cover of Forbes in a few years.Starting with $1 million getting 30% a year for 30 years with no additional contributions is $2.6 billion.
I have to wonder - I've seen it a few times on SDN. Person X says they made money in the market. Another person or two comes in and craps all over them, saying they're lying, or not that good, or they'll lose it all. But, they don't stop there. They just keep hammering, on and on, instead of making their point, and making their peace. That smacks of projection, or displacement. Or whatever!
You got me before I edited!I read WallStreetBets for more colorful humor.
Because it’s infuriating to have a person return from Vegas up $50k and tell you that you just have to “gamble smart”. *shrug*I have to wonder - I've seen it a few times on SDN. Person X says they made money in the market. Another person or two comes in and craps all over them, saying they're lying, or not that good, or they'll lose it all. But, they don't stop there. They just keep hammering, on and on, instead of making their point, and making their peace. I wonder what is the angle.
I worked in the gaming industry. Bar none, they all lose. All. Every single one. More people make money in the markets.Because it’s infuriating to have a person return from Vegas up $50k and tell you that you just have to “gamble smart”. *shrug*
It's important for those who are financial beginners (and with a decent income like physicians) to understand that the random person on the internet doesn't average 30% over a course of a lifetime. It's almost borderline financial malpractice. Very few people can beat the market long term but A LOT of people try and/or think they're smarter, better, etc.I have to wonder - I've seen it a few times on SDN. Person X says they made money in the market. Another person or two comes in and craps all over them, saying they're lying, or not that good, or they'll lose it all. But, they don't stop there. They just keep hammering, on and on, instead of making their point, and making their peace. I wonder what is the angle.
But, how do you reconcile "nothing succeeds like success"? If dude is making money in hand, you can't object to that. By hook or by crook, some people can do it. I strongly doubt someone here is randomly saying, "He did it, I can do it", and putting themselves into financial jeopardy with no knowledge of what they are doing.It's important for those who are financial beginners (and with a decent income like physicians) to understand that the random person on the internet doesn't average 30% over a course of a lifetime. It's almost borderline financial malpractice. Very few people can beat the market long term but A LOT of people try and/or think they're smarter, better, etc.
The issue isn’t if someone can beat the market in a year or several years. It’s the issue that people really can’t do it over a career. People can’t quit when they’re ahead. There’s no such thing as easy money in the market. Things go well until they don’t.But, how do you reconcile "nothing succeeds like success"? If dude is making money in hand, you can't object to that. By hook or by crook, some people can do it. I strongly doubt someone here is randomly saying, "He did it, I can do it", and putting themselves into financial jeopardy with no knowledge of what they are doing.
So, again, dismissing someone repetitively seems ineffectual. To quote the first three of Loeb's Laws of Medicine: 1. If what you are doing is working, keep doing it 2. If what you're doing isn't working, stop and 3. If you don't know what to do, don't do anything. I think they can apply here.
I have to chime in and ask, do you think you are actually going to average 20-30 percent over 30 years? What do you think you’re going to average over 30 years?How do i find that job with goldman 😅? I would love to transition into finance honestly, but i can’t restart my career making 100k and working 80 hours a week. Otherwise i don’t have ANY credentials to begin at a higher level.
Though i don’t need to make other people money, I’m happy making myself 20-30 percent a year. And the problem with managing other people’s money is that the moment there is a dip, people get fearful and pull money out. That’s the exact opposite behavior of what is needed to make money.
It’s fine. Be skeptical. Doesn’t really matter to me. I’ll keep doing what i do, I’ll be making another 4-5 percent (20-25k) in 3 months soon. And that’s actually with a low risk portfolio.
I’m also funneling a large portion of my gains into physical real estate as a diversification into minimal correlation assets.
I have played BJ by the rules, always lose faster than what numbers should predict. I have played craps, and always lose but much slower than BJ.I worked in the gaming industry. Bar none, they all lose.
High-Low count would like to have a word.I worked in the gaming industry. Bar none, they all lose. All. Every single one. More people make money in the markets.
The markets aren't speculating. Gaming is.
I have played BJ by the rules, always lose faster than what numbers should predict. I have played craps, and always lose but much slower than BJ.
Everything else esp slots are many times worse.
I will say my history of Poker sessions are 70% win, 20% break even, and 10% loses. But Poker is a game of skill and not house weighted luck.
The book says double, but stand is also viable.Soft 18 vs dealer 3... what do you do?
The only countable games are shoe blackjack. And to say that is disingenuous, for several reasons. First, that's not a game. Second, although "allowed", casinos are free to bar whomever they want, so, they won't let you keep playing when they catch you, and only have to refund your money 1-1. They will catch you, because the margins for the counter are so low, so, if you are going to make any money, it's obvious. If you bet less, there's no advantage to count. And, it's obvious who is counting. And, you might not know this, but, card counters are put on a national database.High-Low count would like to have a word.
That said, most people who think they can count cards... can't... because if nothing else keeping a count doesn't matter if you aren't playing perfect basic strategy at a minimum (or using appropriate deviations). Gotta hit that 16 v 10 with a negative count. Gotta keep putting that huge bet out after the dealer gets a black jack.
Do you know what the Powerball odds are? If you want dismal, those are they. By your statement, that means only 1.5 people in the entire US will average 20-30% over a career. I can't think of anything there is only one of in the entire country, except my name. There is no one else in the US with the same first and last name as me. And it's only 10 letters for both names.But, it doesn’t affect me but novices have the right to know they have better odds of winning the Powerball than averaging 20-30% over a career.
I have to chime in and ask, do you think you are actually going to average 20-30 percent over 30 years? What do you think you’re going to average over 30 years?
I split KQ against dealer 2 to 6 which should give you your answer.Soft 18 vs dealer 3... what do you do?
The issue isn’t if someone can beat the market in a year or several years. It’s the issue that people really can’t do it over a career. People can’t quit when they’re ahead. There’s no such thing as easy money in the market. Things go well until they don’t.
But, it doesn’t affect me but novices have the right to know they have better odds of winning the Powerball than averaging 20-30% over a career.
Splitting 10s is a mark. Just sayin'.I split KQ against dealer 2 to 6 which should give you your answer.
Double down baby
Real estate is a whole different ballgame than stock/options speculation. The greater return is there, but the trade off is you basically have a part time job to manage your buildings.Thus far I’ve been an index funder but it’s become admittedly boring and @cyanide12345678 and @emergentmd tales have intrigued me to dig a little deeper into options and real estate, respectively. But then posts like @JacobMcCandles and @skougess serve to ground me again.
As an outsider newbie it’s great to have all of these perspectives. In the end one should take it all in from those more experienced, educate oneself, and make as best a decision as possible for one’s own comfort level.
Real estate is a whole different ballgame than stock/options speculation. The greater return is there, but the trade off is you basically have a part time job to manage your buildings.