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I hear all this $350k $500k $650k talk on sites like webmd etc. and then I look on a forum and someone says he knows a plastics guy that makes over 2mil. Please elaborate, what do they actually make.
Reimbursement is variable, depending on what you do. Compensation for anesthesiology, ortho, optho, derm, radiology and even dentistry is much higher than for plastic surgery. A lot of community surgeons do free flap breast recon; this can take 8-12 hours (if there are no problems with anastomosis). They get about $1000 for this procedure, but a radiologist could make much more in that same time period (and not have overhead cost). Be sure it is the only thing you want to do. The last thing you want is to do 8 hour flaps and be miserable when you could make more money in a different specialty.
I hear all this $350k $500k $650k talk on sites like webmd etc. and then I look on a forum and someone says he knows a plastics guy that makes over 2mil. Please elaborate, what do they actually make.
The pay scale for plastics is lower then you think. Certainly much lower then Urology, Orthopedics, Surgery, and Neurosurgery in most instances. Unless you do a lot of simple hand cases, there just aren't a lot of areas where you can churn out large #'s of cases, while reconstructive surgery is some of the worst money per time there is in surgery. I think most Plastic Surgeons cluster between $200-400K per year. I do not believe any plastic surgeon earns $2M (as was mentioned in the OP) from doing surgery and seeing patients, that's probably someone with a very busy ancillary service line to hustle that much. The days of $20K OON free flaps is pretty much gone as carriers won't pay that kind of fee anymore.
Plastic surgeons outside the metro areas are having a hard time staying in business unless they're subsidized employees just to keep a service line open at a hospital.
There are about 10 plastic surgeons in Manhattan or in Beverly Hills who make probably 10 million.
Head Plastic Surgery Prof at UNLV earns around $1,300,000 a year
To hit that # he is almost certainly heavily subsidized by the University in several ways (call pay, paid by billed RVU rather then on collections, , multiple rooms running simultaneously, etc...). To net $1.3m doing an academic practice you would have to usually generate charges of close to $3m (Assuming 60%+ overhead including taxes from the school and department of surgery). That is almost impossible to physically do that much surgery for what reconstruction pays and the length of the more complex cases. You just can't do it based on what you collect anymore.
Likewise, on a predominately cosmetic practice, you still have large overheads and your net per major surgical procedure may run between $1500-3500 for the more common procedures (breast augmentation or abdominoplasty) The more complex body and facial cases may net you more per case, but your throughout is limited. As I mentioned it's very hard to get > $1m net doing plastic surgery anymore, and those people are certainly outliers. For some perspective, a TRAM flap used to reimburse close to $10,000 in 1985. I would get paid <<$3000 for the same case 30 years later.
To hit that # he is almost certainly heavily subsidized by the University in several ways (call pay, paid by billed RVU rather then on collections, , multiple rooms running simultaneously, etc...). To net $1.3m doing an academic practice you would have to usually generate charges of close to $3m (Assuming 60%+ overhead including taxes from the school and department of surgery). That is almost impossible to physically do that much surgery for what reconstruction pays and the length of the more complex cases. You just can't do it based on what you collect anymore.
Likewise, on a predominately cosmetic practice, you still have large overheads and your net per major surgical procedure may run between $1500-3500 for the more common procedures (breast augmentation or abdominoplasty) The more complex body and facial cases may net you more per case, but your throughout is limited. As I mentioned it's very hard to get > $1m net doing plastic surgery anymore, and those people are certainly outliers. For some perspective, a TRAM flap used to reimburse close to $10,000 in 1985. I would get paid <<$3000 for the same case 30 years later.
I hate to tell you this, but that map is **** - they give incomes for many areas without practitioners.Just explored a map of physician compensation county-by-county: www.doximity.com/careers
Average ~ $420K.
I hate to tell you this, but that map is **** - they give incomes for many areas without practitioners.
It really depends. If you do mostly pediatric craniofacial stuff, you won't make as much as adult plastics. There are employed models, group practice models, single specialty models, etc. They all vary as to salary, benefits, hours, cases, etc. If what you're looking for is money, you really should choose another career path.
Really?
I work in a large community with a lot of PP plastic surgeons and none do free flaps. I've never seen it in other community practices. Given the reimbursement, there'd be no way you could run a practice with that time commitment and low rates.
In my community, yes. YMMV.are HMOs, hospitals, or whatever employing plastic surgeons in significant amount? If so, what type of cases predominate in this employment model? I am curious bc I have only heard of opportunities in PP and academics for plastic surgery.
a plastics attending at my school went even further than this and said PP guys avoid recon cases and largely stick to cosmetic cases bc they are more lucrative. Do you agree PP plastics is vastly just cosmetic cases?
We have some Kaiser docs locally that do free flaps (we trained them). There is another community surgeon that also does micro but he does it at the University. He's able to afford it because he gets a huge carve-out from the insurance company. A carve out is a negotiated rate, usually at or close to billed charges, that an insurance company will pay to a certain practitioner for a certain procedure. Other hospital employment models can vary. You might work on a salary plus a productivity bonus, you might be only on productivity after the first year or two, you might get extra money to take call, etc. The cases are generally mixed in these systems. Some employment models are also single specialty and multi specialty which may or may not have revenue sharing or other bonus structures built into the plan.
As someone on the job market now, I am seeing numbers between $225-300 for straight out of fellowship + production bonuses. (some with signing bonus)
Yup. Definitely not the windfall you expect after training for 6-8+ yrs. Sucks.Seems pretty weak.
Yup. Definitely not the windfall you expect after training for 6-8+ yrs. Sucks.
Yes, mostly major cities (east coast). The published number from KP was also along those lines (I think it was $345k+ bonus), but they are in desirable/competitive west coast cities. I would be curious as to how undesirable a location it would have to be to get paid $600k. Never heard that number for a new grad. Though that listing for Fargo, ND has been up for a while!Is this in major metros? Had heard of a few recent grads getting offers in the $400-600k range, but those seemed to be in much less desirable areas.
5 million plus is possible tbh.
No, it is not possible to earn $5M doing Plastic Surgery. There aren't enough hours in the day and the revenue per case is too low. to earn $5M in salary you'd need to generate $10-12M in revenues. that is impossible to do with procedures. People with multimillion dollar earnings get most of it through ancillary services rather then actually doing surgery.
Guys like Zamboni at UNLV (who has since died I believe) who earned a large salary (> $1M) mentioned upthread used to run multiple rooms at a teaching hospital in a way that's now largely considered billing fraud.
This is the same for all fields. It's always the entrepreneurial doctors that make the big bucks. As a rheumatologist, I can tell you that the average rheumatologist makes $200-300k, but I personally know several guys that pull $1.5-2 mil a year by having a ton of ancillary services in a high volume practice.Interesting conversation. I was recently talking with some plastic surgery residents and I got the sense that there was a rather large disparity for plastic surgeons. It seemed that business savvy surgeons who can do a high volume of cosmetic/elective cases can make pretty absurd money, although well earned. However these jobs are likely hard to come by and take entrepreneurial skills and business acumen to be successful. I could imagine the frustration of completing a brutal plastics residency and then being salaried at only 300-400k.
Do a lot of people fall into the trap of thinking they'll be making 500K+ in cosmetics only to find out that they're not part of the lucky few?
Dr Samin sharma who is an interventional cards guy does the same thing...multiple procedures at the same time..he makes 3.5 mill.
Dr samadi is a pioneer in robotic urology surgeries and hence probably the big bucks
Anyone with most recent MGMA for 50 percentile plastic surgeon salary in Boston/northeast area?
Academic center plastic surgeon here. The last few years I've been taking home ~1M per year. My comp is essentially 100% clinical. Been in practice for over 10 years and am what you'd consider "mid-career". I do a mix of cosmetic and reconstructive microsurgery.I hear all this $350k $500k $650k talk on sites like webmd etc. and then I look on a forum and someone says he knows a plastics guy that makes over 2mil. Please elaborate, what do they actually make.
Academic center plastic surgeon here. The last few years I've been taking home ~1M per year. My comp is essentially 100% clinical. Been in practice for over 10 years and am what you'd consider "mid-career". I do a mix of cosmetic and reconstructive microsurgery.
I worked very hard early on in my career doing a lot of stuff, but eventually carved out a niche practice. I work less than I used to, but my is spent wisely. I'm probably pretty typical of most mid-career surgeons who have a significant cosmetic component to their practices.