how much income per year do you expect to earn as a new dentist?

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AceDentist

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I understand the income may vary depending on many factors, but how much income per year do you expect to earn as a newly graduated dentist?

I found bunch of stat on average income for dentists, but there is none that focus on new dentists who just graduated from school. It will be nice if you the dental students can share the info that you are getting in dental school. Thank you!

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I understand the income may vary depending on many factors, but how much income per year do you expect to earn as a newly graduated dentist?

I found bunch of stat on average income for dentists, but there is none that focus on new dentists who just graduated from school. It will be nice if you the dental students can share the info that you are getting in dental school. Thank you!

I see that you are a relatively new member, and others may jump on you and tell you do a simple search, but I imagine you can reasonably expect anywhere between 85,000 and 130,000 depending on which part of the country you are in. Hope that helps. Good luck
 
Search and you will find......and for Gods sake someone please lock this thread!!!!
 
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I see that you are a relatively new member, and others may jump on you and tell you do a simple search, but I imagine you can reasonably expect anywhere between 85,000 and 130,000 depending on which part of the country you are in. Hope that helps. Good luck

Sounds about right to me.
 
Search and you will find......and for Gods sake someone please lock this thread!!!!

Come on Ocean, isn't it fun to see the post about someone knowing a fresh grad whose making $1,000,000 a year first year out while working only 3 days a week:D;)

Seriously, the numbers can very ALOT depending on location, hours a week you work, how your contract is set up, etc, etc, etc.

I would make a generalization that a strong majority of new grads working a 4+ day a week schedule could reasonably expect to make between 75 and 125K during their first year.

I'm sure if you do a forum search, you'll find many a thread and hundreds of posts about this very topic
 
Short answer; 100k.
Long answer (I'm quoting capsice),

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:smuggrin:
 
Depends on your area, how fast/good you are, how your employer treats you. There's no good answer for you because there are so many variables. I'll share my situation just as an example. I am the only dentist in a satellite office and my office typically produces $50,000-60,000 with no hygienist. I get paid about $12,000 / month.

I had plenty of classmates who were taking offers for much less though. You can reasonably expect $75,000 -$120,000. Anything more than that your first year - you got lucky.
 
The 2002 Survey of New Dentist Financial Issues reveals that recent graduates average $9,000 per month or $109,000 per year as an associate full-time dentist. However, it's easy to see how that $9,000 per month disappears when you factor in the average monthly costs of living... (the following is what I heard/read/know from friends started working as associates in their first year).

$ 2,700 taxes
$ 1,500 rent or mortgage payment
$ 500 utilities
$ 650 car payment and auto insurance
$ 1,000 life, disability, and malpractice insurance
$ 1,000 Student loans
$ whatever is left from your check goes to groceries, clothing, gas for the car, health club membership and most important: savings.
 
I love conjecture.
 
The 2002 Survey of New Dentist Financial Issues reveals that recent graduates average $9,000 per month or $109,000 per year as an associate full-time dentist. However, it’s easy to see how that $9,000 per month disappears when you factor in the average monthly costs of living... (the following is what I heard/read/know from friends started working as associates in their first year).

$ 2,700 taxes
$ 1,500 rent or mortgage payment
$ 500 utilities
$ 650 car payment and auto insurance
$ 1,000 life, disability, and malpractice insurance
$ 1,000 Student loans
$ whatever is left from your check goes to groceries, clothing, gas for the car, health club membership and most important: savings.



Wow, 650 for a car payment and 1000 for insurance. Those are some steep bills.
 
My spreadsheet expects me to clear ~60k after loan repayment and taxes, less if I want to pay it off faster.

My spreadsheet (my wife) hopes I'll clear more than that after loans and taxes.:p
 
My spreadsheet expects me to clear ~60k after loan repayment and taxes, less if I want to pay it off faster.

Are you a student? Based on your assumption you have signed for about 115k/year. Do you know how quick you can eat through your cleared 60k? Insurances and mortgage/rent will likely cost you 30k/year in itself. Now car payment, groceries, clothing, Recreation, Dining, a broken heat pump, your dog swallowed some staples Vet bill, etc etc etc.....It would be nice to pay off my loans faster, but I need to make my wife's car payment each month:)
 
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The 2002 Survey of New Dentist Financial Issues reveals that recent graduates average $9,000 per month or $109,000 per year as an associate full-time dentist. However, it’s easy to see how that $9,000 per month disappears when you factor in the average monthly costs of living... (the following is what I heard/read/know from friends started working as associates in their first year).

$ 2,700 taxes
$ 1,500 rent or mortgage payment
$ 500 utilities
$ 650 car payment and auto insurance
$ 1,000 life, disability, and malpractice insurance
$ 1,000 Student loans
$ whatever is left from your check goes to groceries, clothing, gas for the car, health club membership and most important: savings.

If you're in Boston/LA/NY/SF or similar city, you need to at least double your rent/mortgage/propertytax payment for a decent place unless you're happy with your current student apartment. Coming out of BU you'll probably need to pay $2000-$4000month in loan payment.
 
Are you a student? Based on your assumption you have signed for about 115k/year. Do you know how quick you can eat through your cleared 60k? Insurances and mortgage/rent will likely cost you 30k/year in itself. Now car payment, groceries, clothing, Recreation, Dining, a broken heat pump, your dog swallowed some staples Vet bill, etc etc etc.....It would be nice to pay off my loans faster, but I need to make my wife's car payment each month:)

Well, technically I don't know because I've been a sheltered college student for the better part of my adult life. But the best I can project says I can probably pay more than the minimum, especially if I tighten the 'ol belt for a few years post-graduation.
 
Having been around two graduating classes (my own classmates in FL from 2006 and my ex-girlfriend's classmates in Louisiana from 2007), majority of the starting offers where below six figures.

I would say $80K starting is average for associates for 5 days a week.

Not saying 100K+ offers aren't out there, but that's definitely in the minority.

What ever you do, don't come to Louisiana as a new dentist expecting a six figure salary, they don't make **** down here as a new general dentists! Just not enough demands for esthetic/cosmetic dentistry.
 
Just got back from Thanksgiving dinner and talked to my cousin tonight who works as a dental hygenist in Fort Myers, Florida. The practice she works for is a 2 chair office and she briefly mentioned that they hired a new associate right out of Nova a while ago (where I go to school at). I of course had to ask how much the new associate made and she said 140,000 a year. I was a bit surprised and thought new graduate dentists would make more around 100-115K. Granted she did say that her dentist hardly ever referred an endo case out and b/w him and the associate they did a ton of prosth. By the way, she says they are looking to hire a new associate so if anyone needs a job in Fort Myers, let me know!
 
Just got back from Thanksgiving dinner and talked to my cousin tonight who works as a dental hygenist in Fort Myers, Florida. The practice she works for is a 2 chair office and she briefly mentioned that they hired a new associate right out of Nova a while ago (where I go to school at). I of course had to ask how much the new associate made and she said 140,000 a year. I was a bit surprised and thought new graduate dentists would make more around 100-115K. Granted she did say that her dentist hardly ever referred an endo case out and b/w him and the associate they did a ton of prosth. By the way, she says they are looking to hire a new associate so if anyone needs a job in Fort Myers, let me know!

2 chair office with a hygienist and two docs? First, how would the hygienist know the salary of the associate. Second, how can you produce/afford to pay a hygienist and two docs with 2 chairs? You need more like 7 chairs for a hygienist and 2 docs.
 
2 chair office with a hygienist and two docs? First, how would the hygienist know the salary of the associate. Second, how can you produce/afford to pay a hygienist and two docs with 2 chairs? You need more like 7 chairs for a hygienist and 2 docs.

Don't forget that they're hiring another doctor as well :laugh: Satellite offices maybe?
 
I think they are opening a new office. I didn't question her when she told me about the salary, just thought to myself that it was way too much for a new graduate. She then did say that they do pretty much every procedure and don't refer anything so it began to make a little more sense. By the way, she mentioned her dentist loved to get manicures to improve his tactile sensation under his gloves, :D.
 
Having been around two graduating classes (my own classmates in FL from 2006 and my ex-girlfriend's classmates in Louisiana from 2007), majority of the starting offers where below six figures.

I would say $80K starting is average for associates for 5 days a week.

Not saying 100K+ offers aren't out there, but that's definitely in the minority.

That is NOT what I've found from my classmates, 85% of which have stayed out west (Arizona, Oregon, Idaho, California, Utah). The average is for sure over $100k, with $120-130k being the norm from those I have randomly polled. It's a geographic thing, among other things.
 
sorry if i missed it....what is that number?? money you owe out of school?
i think he's saying that's exactly how much he's going to clear as a new dentist. :D

dentist to the stars?
 
lol...u make less than those who have GED...lol..think again about your profession's a small retail business make about 100k a yr...why woul dstudy till your hair gets white to make little money..my friend had GED and make 80 a yr in IBM...lol......dentist who does not make at least 1million a yr is not worth it....1million or No dentist
 
lol...u make less than those who have GED...lol..think again about your profession's a small retail business make about 100k a yr...why woul dstudy till your hair gets white to make little money..my friend had GED and make 80 a yr in IBM...lol......dentist who does not make at least 1million a yr is not worth it....1million or No dentist

Can't the mods ban people?
 
lol...u make less than those who have GED...lol..think again about your profession's a small retail business make about 100k a yr...why woul dstudy till your hair gets white to make little money..my friend had GED and make 80 a yr in IBM...lol......dentist who does not make at least 1million a yr is not worth it....1million or No dentist
I guess I won't be seeing you at the ADA annual session, then. Rats.
 
I know you guys really worry about this stuff. I know I did when I was in your shoes so I will share some personal information. This is just my personal experience though.

I just got my final income statement for 2007. I started working the very last week of June. I work 4.5 days week for 32% of production. Hygiene doesn't count towards my production though I do a fair amount of it. I took 3 weeks vacation. I earned just over $84,000 for those 6 months of work.

I'm thinking about asking the owner if I can just work 6 months out of the year and then take the other 6 months off. ;) I could live on $84,000... especially if I had a 6 month vacation every year. :D
 
I just got my final income statement for 2007. I started working the very last week of June. I work 4.5 days week for 32% of production. Hygiene doesn't count towards my production though I do a fair amount of it. I took 3 weeks vacation. I earned just over $84,000 for those 6 months of work.
That sounds about right, good job.

However, how did you manage to finish school and produce over $250,000 in 6 months as a newbie associate? as in, how did you manage to bring up your speed so fast under a very short period of time? people who have been out of school for 3 or even 5 years don't produce that much, but I guess there other factors (like demographics, business model, case acceptance, etc) that defines how much $$$ you can generate.
 
That sounds about right, good job.

However, how did you manage to finish school and produce over $250,000 in 6 months as a newbie associate? as in, how did you manage to bring up your speed so fast under a very short period of time? people who have been out of school for 3 or even 5 years don't produce that much, but I guess there other factors (like demographics, business model, case acceptance, etc) that defines how much $$$ you can generate.

"Getting your speed up" is something that dental students stress about, but for all but the slowest of students it really is a non-issue. You are a heck of a lot faster than you think. There are no start checks, no lines at the dispensary, no med history check, no prep check, no mid-procedure checks. You do your job and go to the next op.

Private practice is efficient in ways that school can't (and shouldn't) be. I don't step into the room until the patient is seated, watching a movie and set up on nitrous if I'm using it. The minute I enter the room I review the trx plan (that I have already reviewed once in the morning) chat a little with the patient and start working.

I will admit I was one of the faster students in my class, but that really doesn't mean much. I don't focus on working especially fast; I take the time I need to get the job done and usually tell the front desk to schedule me more time than I actually anticipate needing. The key to producing a lot of dentistry is not in working fast; it is in working efficiently. You can take your time to do excellent work and still be very efficient.

A big thing is doing multiple procedures at each visit. If I am doing 1and 2 surface fillings in #2,3,4 I may as well do the fillings in #30,31 at the same visit. It adds 10-15 minutes of procedure to time to do the bottom quad at the same visit, but if I schedule that quad for a separate appt I am going to ask the front desk for 30-40 minutes to account for chatting, letting the block take effect, etc... The patients appreciate being in your chair for fewer visits and your production goes way up without compromising quality.

Another big thing is not being afraid to see kids. You have to have the personality for it, but they typically have lots of decay and the work goes very quickly. Once you get good at placing the pre-crimped SSC they are the absolute easiest procedure in dentistry to do. We don't overcharge either - less than $150 for a pulpotomy and SSC. Fillings on kids are fast too. The preps are small and easy. Setting the business part aside, working with kids is just fun.

I am not hopping from chair to chair either. I spend a LOT of time on DT while I am at work and almost just as much time planning my startup practice. Our fee schedule is very low and we accept almost all traditional insurance (no HMO or capitation). I am in a pretty rural place and that helps a lot - there simply isn't much competition.

I am the only doc in this satellite office and the office itself typically produces about $60,000 month. I have to admit I am kind of jealous of all that hygiene, preventive, radiographic production that I see but don't get any part of. I'm not upset about it, I absolutley expect the owner to make a lot of money off me. But you can't help but think "what if this were my own practice?" I would really like to be getting 40% of $60,000 as opposed to the 32% of resto I am getting now. Still, I am very grateful to the owner for the position I have now.

I hope I don't come across as being too money oriented. I absolutely am not, but that's what this thread is about. I know how hard it is for students in school to get real world numbers. Everybody either feels it is too personal to share, pads their numbers to look better, or just plain feels it is wrong to talk about money. That is why I am sharing.
 
I know you guys really worry about this stuff. I know I did when I was in your shoes so I will share some personal information. This is just my personal experience though.

I just got my final income statement for 2007. I started working the very last week of June. I work 4.5 days week for 32% of production. Hygiene doesn't count towards my production though I do a fair amount of it. I took 3 weeks vacation. I earned just over $84,000 for those 6 months of work.

I'm thinking about asking the owner if I can just work 6 months out of the year and then take the other 6 months off. ;) I could live on $84,000... especially if I had a 6 month vacation every year. :D



You are so awesome.;) Why even do a startup, based on your numbers you'll do 200k next year without any business running worries. Taking all of these insurances, are you paid before or after the adjustments? Im sure you have every student on this thread salivating.
 
I know you guys really worry about this stuff. I know I did when I was in your shoes so I will share some personal information. This is just my personal experience though.

I just got my final income statement for 2007. I started working the very last week of June. I work 4.5 days week for 32% of production. Hygiene doesn't count towards my production though I do a fair amount of it. I took 3 weeks vacation. I earned just over $84,000 for those 6 months of work.

I'm thinking about asking the owner if I can just work 6 months out of the year and then take the other 6 months off. ;) I could live on $84,000... especially if I had a 6 month vacation every year. :D


Thanks for sharing :).

I was wondering if $84,000 was after taxes or before?
 
I know you guys really worry about this stuff. I know I did when I was in your shoes so I will share some personal information. This is just my personal experience though.

I just got my final income statement for 2007. I started working the very last week of June. I work 4.5 days week for 32% of production. Hygiene doesn't count towards my production though I do a fair amount of it. I took 3 weeks vacation. I earned just over $84,000 for those 6 months of work.

I'm thinking about asking the owner if I can just work 6 months out of the year and then take the other 6 months off. ;) I could live on $84,000... especially if I had a 6 month vacation every year. :D


*cough*bull*****cough*

so, you produced $262,000, in six months, with three weeks vacation...coming right out of dental school?

*cough*bull*****cough*
 
*cough*bull*****cough*

so, you produced $262,000, in six months, with three weeks vacation...coming right out of dental school?

*cough*bull*****cough*

What kind of response is this???? For some reasons, there are always jealous people who pop up everywhere to talk people down just because others are willing to share their info, and they happen to do better. I have friends who are recent graduates, and produce the kind of income that 12yr old kid talked about. So I think the number 12yroldkid provided is relevant.
 
*cough*bull*****cough*

so, you produced $262,000, in six months, with three weeks vacation...coming right out of dental school?

*cough*bull*****cough*

22 weaks x 4.5 = 99

262,000 / 99 = 2646 /day

Sounds reasonable to me
 
ah the neverending debate as to how much one can earn as a newbie dentist...i love it. Another reason I'm glad I took the military route..this is one thing I wont have to think about for a while (if ever) :D...but, I guess I could always throw in my $.02. When I spoke to my dentist..he told me that he couldnt imagine starting a new dentist at more than 100k..simply b/c they are a liability. But again...everywhere you go is different..and dont forget, making 200k in LA is significantly different than bringing in 200k in some rural town in the midwest....location is big here.
 
When I spoke to my dentist..he told me that he couldnt imagine starting a new dentist at more than 100k..simply b/c they are a liability.

Whatever any of you guys do, don't listen to doctors like this. They are just insecure in their own practice, and most are unwilling to get better. Only associate with people that are more than willing to bring you up. Anyone that tries to make you feel like you can't do something, tell them to get lost.
 
You are so awesome.;) Why even do a startup, based on your numbers you'll do 200k next year without any business running worries. Taking all of these insurances, are you paid before or after the adjustments? Im sure you have every student on this thread salivating.

I'm not sure what kind of sarcasm I should be reading into that first statement. :D

In any case, my point in sharing this wasn't to show how awesome I am. The point is that I am an average new grad who went to work in a great situation. I was offered a salaried position closer to family, but it would have meant nearly half the income. I opted to go to a rural area a few hours aways and I am now reaping the benefits of that choice.

To those who are calling BS. I would say at least the top half (clinically speaking) of every dental school class is capable of producing $2500 / day when placed in the right situation. Somedays I produce a little less and somedays a little more. Somedays a lot more. It's really not as much dentistry as you think - even at low fees. And this can be done without compromising quality or ethics.

You can look up old posts of mine and see where I was also totally skeptical of anyone claiming new grads could make this type of money. I expected$90,000 - 100,000 to be top dollar for my first year out. That is not bad pay - it's awesome actually. But if you look for the right opportunity you can do a lot better.
 
Whatever any of you guys do, don't listen to doctors like this. They are just insecure in their own practice, and most are unwilling to get better. Only associate with people that are more than willing to bring you up. Anyone that tries to make you feel like you can't do something, tell them to get lost.

I agree... somewhat. If you are being paid salary, $100,000 is reasonable. The owner is taking a big risk that you can't / won't produce enough to justify your pay. I really think being paid on production / collection is the best way for associates. You sink or swim based on your own merits.

Some dentists have their own way of doing things and don't want to change. That is fine, but it doesn't always make a lot of business sense. I have been talking to a dentist a few towns over who wants to bring on a partner. Nice office, nice guy, booked out 12 weeks for resto. Sounds like a great situation, but when I start digging into things I find he rarely schedules more than 1 or 2 restorations per patient visit. A single Class II is routinely booked for 50 minutes. He has an extra op available but he doesn't use it. It is full of storage.

No wonder he is booked out so far. He is stretching a weeks worth of dentistry into about a month :eek: That is fine for him, but I would rather work really hard for a few weeks and then take some time off. This is the kind of guy who will tell you a new grad can't produce enough to justify more than $100,000. Because you can't if you are working the way he does.
 
BTW, I am paid after insurance adjustment. And I am talking before tax figures. I have no idea what my actual tax will be since I haven't filed yet, but withholdings have been just under 25%. I have a lot of deductions though (5 dependents). I'm not expecting a refund, just hoping I don't have to write a check. :D
 
What kind of response is this???? For some reasons, there are always jealous people who pop up everywhere to talk people down just because others are willing to share their info, and they happen to do better. I have friends who are recent graduates, and produce the kind of income that 12yr old kid talked about. So I think the number 12yroldkid provided is relevant.

this thread is kinda like the threads where people post their board scores.

it never fails to amaze me how almost everyone on this board seems to score a 93 or above on their board exams.

it's not about jealousy. it's about being around dentistry long enough to know what is realistic and what is BS.

his claim of producing $262,000 in dentistry in only 21 weeks, (without including any hygiene or radiographs, nonetheless!!!) is misleading and irresponsible, especially considering dental students who may be graduating in a few years will be reading this.
 
this thread is kinda like the threads where people post their board scores.

it never fails to amaze me how almost everyone on this board seems to score a 93 or above on their board exams.

it's not about jealousy. it's about being around dentistry long enough to know what is realistic and what is BS.

his claim of producing $262,000 in dentistry, (without including any hygiene or radiographs, nonetheless!!!) is misleading and irresponsible, especially considering dental students who may be graduating in a few years will be reading this.

Perhaps you think this because you're practicing in kentucky (a known pauper state for dentistry) ?
 
this thread is kinda like the threads where people post their board scores.

it never fails to amaze me how almost everyone on this board seems to score a 93 or above on their board exams.

it's not about jealousy. it's about being around dentistry long enough to know what is realistic and what is BS.

his claim of producing $262,000 in dentistry, (without including any hygiene or radiographs, nonetheless!!!) is misleading and irresponsible, especially considering dental students who may be graduating in a few years will be reading this.

For those of you who DON'T live/practice dentistry in rural communities where you are the only dentist around, these numbers are very attainable. Give the benefit of the doubt unless you know the situation first hand. I do, and I can tell you that in a small rural community with a single dentist (small group practice) the operative/fixed/removable cases are just plowing the door down.
 
Perhaps you think this because you're practicing in kentucky (a known pauper state for dentistry) ?

Could you elaborate on your view that Kentucky is "a known pauper state for dentistry"? Thanks in advance!!
 
Could you elaborate on your view that Kentucky is "a known pauper state for dentistry"? Thanks in advance!!

According to the recently published New York Times article dental care is not a primary concern for many of the residents due to financial restrictions. I think the article gave stats about kentucky and a couple other states.

Edit: just for the record, it's not my view as I've never been nor have researched about dentistry in kentucky. It was more of a casual comment originating mostly from my read of the article.
 
this thread is kinda like the threads where people post their board scores.

it never fails to amaze me how almost everyone on this board seems to score a 93 or above on their board exams.

it's not about jealousy. it's about being around dentistry long enough to know what is realistic and what is BS.

his claim of producing $262,000 in dentistry, (without including any hygiene or radiographs, nonetheless!!!) is misleading and irresponsible, especially considering dental students who may be graduating in a few years will be reading this.

I know a first year associate that did much more that this guy. Don't be so quick to dismiss.
 
BTW, I am paid after insurance adjustment. And I am talking before tax figures. I have no idea what my actual tax will be since I haven't filed yet, but withholdings have been just under 25%. I have a lot of deductions though (5 dependents). I'm not expecting a refund, just hoping I don't have to write a check. :D



What is the practice owner's production numbers?
 
BTW, I am paid after insurance adjustment. And I am talking before tax figures. I have no idea what my actual tax will be since I haven't filed yet, but withholdings have been just under 25%. I have a lot of deductions though (5 dependents). I'm not expecting a refund, just hoping I don't have to write a check. :D

Oh boy, I hope that with all those deductions you don't get to "learn" about the biggest oxymoron in taxes, the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT). If you end up "qualifying" for the AMT, you'll see a significant amount of those deductions going bye-bye:eek::scared: And well that refund you might think you'll be getting may just go :boom:
 
I know these questions have been asked, but:

1.) What's the average starting salary (when you are 30-31), for a starting premier specialist in orthodontics, endodontics, and oral and maxillofacial surgery?

2.) For current dentists, on average, how many years after you get out of residency + what is the expected amount of capital (buying the place, overhead costs, etc...) do you need to start a new practice assuming you have found a good market and a great location?
 
1.) What's the average starting salary (when you are 30-31), for a starting premier specialist in orthodontics, endodontics, and oral and maxillofacial surgery?

Oooo sign me up to be one of these "premiere" specialists since I will be almost 30 when I get outta here and restart my dental career. :rolleyes:

I hope as a non-premiere ortho I can make somewhere between $150K - $200K when I get out. More if I work 6.5 days/week, less if I decide to open my own shop and have to wait a few years for business to grow.
 
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