I got a problem choosing between caribbean and DO schools!

[dmitrinyr]

I have a dilemma. I have recently been accepted to St. George's (Grenada) and am currently on NYCOM's priority waiting list. A good friend of mine has already been accepted NYCOM and wants me to go to NYCOM with him if I am accepted there off waiting list. If I get accepted off waiting list then I am going to have to choose between going away from everything that I know for two years to the islands or going to school with my friend, which would be make it much easier and both of us happy. The problem is with me and the concept of being a DO. I respect DO's and their qualifications as physicians and know that they get the same training as their allopathic counterparts (they even get more with OMM). But the thing is that I don't know if I will be happy being a DO and proud of my accomplishments as I know that I would be with an MD. I know that with hard work, from both type of schools (MD or DO), I could get any residency that I would want, it is just that I don't want it to be 10 years from now and me not liking my choice in life or not being proud everyday for being and osteopathic physician. I don't mean to be melodramatic, it is just I feel that this is a pretty big decision and one that I will have to live with for the rest of my career.

I feel that there is a decent chance that I will be accepted off waiting list (seeing that my numbers are at or above their averages) and this decision will have to be made.

I would appreciate any advice that you guys might have. Thanks

dmitri

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[SM-UCLA tech]

First of all, you have to get over that ridiculous train of thought. To say that you wouldn't be proud of your accomplishments if the initials after your name are D.O. is immature at best.

I will try to give you some good advice. Don't go to the Caribbean unless you have to. I also was accepted to St. George's as well as U.S. allopathic.

I will not extrapolate on why staying in the U.S. is a better decision because it's been said by many people many times, and it's all true. If you end up at a foreign school, you will soon realize why what I am saying is true. Also, after being in medical school, you will realize that M.D. or D.O. will have no effect on how you practice medicine, how people perceive you, or how your perceive yourself. ( Unless you have a low self-esteem ).


Good luck to you. I hope you can get off the waitlist to have this decision to make. Getting off a waitlist is never a guarantee. My class has 0 students from the waitlist.

 

[dmitrinyr]

SM-UCLA tech,

I appreciate your comments. I didn't mean to sound immature by saying that when and if I become a DO that I would consider it an accomplishment, it is just I am not sure that I want to be a DO and so if I don't then I wouldn't feel right going to a DO school. I realize that some people go to DO schools when they don't really want to learn OMM but just want to be a doctor at any cost. For the same reason other people go away to the islands and leave everything (of these I know many). I guess I have to get some things straightened out inside my head about what I really want and my future plans before making any kind of choice.

Thanks.

 

[SM-UCLA tech]

I can totally understand your thinking. But Osteopathic medicine is not all about OMM. I am not a big fan of OMM myself. I do not plan on using it in my practice in the future. Does that mean I should not have gone to an Osteopathic medical school? Not at all! OMM is just another specialty of medicine.

I am not trying to sway your decision. But like you said, you have to think about your decision.

 

[DrMom]

If you're really going to be bothered with being a DO, please don't go to an osteopathic school.

 

[LP1CW]

If you think DO is a stigma, Mill schools aren't better. Carribean schools are collectively known to be schools that take students who didn't get into US medical schools. You'll have to live with that too. At least with being a DO, you could always tell people that it was a choice to attend there, that you truly believed in their philosophy. As soon as you say Carribean school, people know that you didn't get into a US allopathic school.

US medical schools are always your best option, allopathic or osteopathic. Also getting back into the states is hard and getting harder.

Get over it. It's about the work we'll be doing. It's about the people we'll be priveleged to serve. Also, there are plenty of osteopathic students that got into both DO and MD programs and now are trying to decide between the two programs. Many actually choose DO. I just met a girl that got into UNE and Dartmouth and she chose UNE.

 

[HoudyK]

If you think there is a stigma surrounding D.O. schools, then you have to be aware of the fact that the stigma surrounding carribean schools is MUCH MUCH MUCH greater. If you don't want to go the osteopathic route, I would honestly re-apply to allopathic before ever even considering the carribean schools. good luck.

 

[Amy B]

DO schools = MD schools

DO >>>>> Carribean schools

 

[GoForIt]

If you're really going to be bothered with being a DO, please don't go to an osteopathic school.

This is probably the BEST advice you can get. Why make yourself regret being a DO, and take away a valuable spot from someone who has a genuine interest in osteopathy?

DO is not for you. You should really consider going to St. George which is really a great school.

Go luck to you.

 

[raptor5]

Another option is do the 1st two years in Grenada and transfer into US allopathic. I have a friend that went to Grenada for two years and then transferred to Drexel actually it was MCP Hahnemann at the time and he did fine. He loved his two years in Grenada b/c all he did was study with the goal in mine to transfer back into the states. It sounds from your post that DO should not be an option for you. I only applied DO and I know I could have gotten accepted into many allopathic schools. I never think of DO as a stigma eventhough there are GME programs that are not DO friendly.

Good Luck in your decision

 

[DD214_DOC]

Ok dude, here's the truth now that you have heard lots of bull****.

Consider the three medical schools as automobiles. You have the Porsche (MD), the Corvette (DO), and the Mustang Cobra(Caribbean MD). The Porsche and Corvette cars are excellent cars, finely crafted, and of top quality. However, a Porsche costs more than a Corvette and is considered "superior". The Mustang Cobra is well below both cars in craftsmanship, price, regard, and quality.

All three are cars, and all three will get you where you want to go. You have to decide for yourself if you buy the brand because you like and prefer that brand, or because driving around in that brand will make you feel good and impress other people.

In the real world, people who cannot afford a Porsche buy a Corvette. (Unless they prefer Corvettes over Porsches). If someone really wants a Porsche, then they refuse to settle for a Corvette and work hard to get that Porsche, even if it takes more time. People who just want a ride to work or school buy a Mustang Cobra.

People will always judge you about which car you drive. Drive the Porsche, some people will admire you and others will think you have a small penis. Drive the Corvette, and people will think you couldn't afford a Porsche, although others will still admire you. Drive the Mustang Cobra, and everyone will laugh at you because you look like a high school idiot.

As an aside, someone pointed out that Caribbean MD schools are "degree mills". Well, doesn't this describe EVERY private medical school, MD and DO alike? These schools exist to turn a profit, not educate future doctors.

Personally, I prefer DO. I like the philosophy, I like the atmosphere of the schools, and I like the people involved with osteopathy. I also like the rich history of the profession and its origin (AMERICA). I see osteopathy as the future of medicine.

I would be perfectly content driving a Corvette; it may not be a Porsche in the eyes of everyone, but not everyone can afford a Corvette anyways. My happiness > the opinions of strangers.

 

[Chrisobean]

well said.

dont use DO as your "backup" if you really dont want to go there. never settle. it's obviously already bothering you already, since you had to ask, so dont go to NYCOM if its not what you want.
i think nycom is a fantastic school, and i would be totally thrilled if i got accepted there. and no offense, but you are still on the waitlist, there is no guarantees here.

 

[bruinrab]

Originally posted by JKDMed
I also like the rich history of the profession and its origin (AMERICA).

I can understand your other reasons, but why should the origin make a difference?

 

[Adapt]

Originally posted by dmitrinyr
But the thing is that I don't know if I will be happy being a DO and proud of my accomplishments as I know that I would be with an MD.

Everyone pretty much has it right, but I will add my take on the subject.

This statment that you made contradicts your situation. For all intents and purposes, caribbean schools are considered lower than DO schools for many reasons, one being it is easier to get into a caribbean school than a DO school. This is exactly what happened in your situation. You got into the caribbean school but not the DO school.

Thus, I don't see how you can be "proud" of your accomplishments seeing as how you got into the easiest school to get into, even if it is an MD.

Let's be honest here and stop all the nonsense arguments that you have tried to make about why not DO. The fact of the matter is you want those initials "MD" behind your name even if you have to go to some low-brow, easy to get into caribbean school.

You are willing to travel to some rock and live there for 2 years away from all the people you know for those 2 letters.

Personally, I think it is ridiculous and utterly sad. However, this is my opinion, and I know that many people want that beloved MD so much they will go to great lengths to achieve it.

My advice to you is to go to SGU.

 

[turkdlit]

"Thus, I don't see how you can be "proud" of your accomplishments seeing as how you got into the easiest school to get into, even if it is an MD."

"Personally, I think it is ridiculous and utterly sad"

Jeeze Slick, lets ease up on this doode, he didn't come here to get insulted, he came for advice...

Just because you're waitlisted at a DO school and got into a carrib school doesn't mean one is easier than the other. Its not a piece of cake to get into ANY med school...carrib and DO have lower numbers than MD schools, comparatively, but in an absolute sense, the average person is way impressed with someone that get into medical school. Its hard any way you slice it, so congrats, dmitrinyr, for getting accepted.

If the DO after your name is going to present a problem for you, then maybe you should consider the carrib school more seriously. You don't want to be practicing 10 years down the line, miserable, because you felt like you made the wrong choice. No matter what people tell about how "ridiculous" it is to be concerned about the two letters after your name, the only thing that matters is how YOU feel about. Screw what others think...and screw DO if it isn't for you! Go to the carib school, I know someone who went there and they love it! Its the same training, its still hard as hell, and you'll get to be a doctor in the end, with the MD after your name...plus you're in the Caribbean!

And by the way, Carib and DO schools are very similar in their acceptance stats...the avg. for DO is 3.3-3.4 gpa and ~8 average MCAT, while carib is 3.2 and 7-8 average MCAT (http://www.caribbeanmedicine.com/admission.htm). I got 3 interviews from DO schools with numbers less than carib acceptance stats! So don't sell yourself short on your accomplishment, despite what some people on their high horse might say...

Oh! And another thing is that since you haven't gotten off the waitlist, you don't have much of a choice but to plan on going to the Carib school...I say that you should cross the DO bridge once (and if) you get to it, you know?

 

[wholehealth]

Hey JKDMed, couldn't we be a BMW instead? I'm not much of a corvette fan

Oh, and any word from VCOM?

 

[Adapt]

Originally posted by turkdlit
"Thus, I don't see how you can be "proud" of your accomplishments seeing as how you got into the easiest school to get into, even if it is an MD."

"Personally, I think it is ridiculous and utterly sad"

Jeeze Slick, lets ease up on this doode, he didn't come here to get insulted, he came for advice...

I wasn't insulting him. Although my words are strong, as I had said in my post, it is my opinion. If you reread his quote, he was insinuating that a DO isn't as good of an accomplishment as an MD since he wouldn't be as happy with it.

I did give him my advice. Because of his way of thinking, I believe he should go to the caribbean.

 

[DD214_DOC]

Originally posted by wholehealth
Hey JKDMed, couldn't we be a BMW instead? I'm not much of a corvette fan

Oh, and any word from VCOM?

I originally had DOs as a BMW

And no, I don't apply until this summer (hopefully). I'm currently being (o) <---8 by Physics 202. Everyone in my lab is going to drop the class tomorrow after we get our exams back. The dude just makes this course rediculous.

 

[wholehealth]

Originally posted by JKDMed
"I originally had DOs as a BMW "

Always go with your first instinct...

 

[bella_dottoressa]

So I'm not applying til next year but I've been playing this premed game for awhile...just a couple thoughts on the classic DO/MD question.

How many of us before we entered college even knew DOs existed? I thought I was a pretty smart 17 year old, but I hadn't a clue. All I knew..all I knew since I was tiny was that I wanted to be a doctor. My doctor was called an M.D. and so were all the ones I knew. That became engrained. Doctor = MD. Then I get to college and it isn't until then, and finding these boards, that I figure out what DOs are. Does the thought of being a DO immediately seem equivalent to me? Nope. But after a while, you mature, don't you? You realize that as a DO you'd do the same thing, wear the same white coat...be the same person. The same person! The second I realized that I knew that I would apply to both. Because all I want is to practice medicine and I know there are smarter people than me out there. People with higher GPAs and MCATs. An acceptance ANYWHERE is what I want. It took me a little while but I warmed up to the idea of being a DO quickly.

If you aren't looking to enter a super competitive specialty, think about this carefully. With a friend at NYCOM, it sounds like that might be a lot nicer of a life for you for the next couple years. Read the DO forums, educate yourself a little. Realize that the two letters after your name don't make you less of a doctor. If you're worried about the connotation a DO will draw to mind; your medical school being in the carib draws the same one.

 

[VentdependenT]

If you are going into medicine because of the nostalgic notion of prestige, you have quite a rude awakening awaiting. It doesn't matter where you go for your education. You are going to work like a dog, get slapped around in residency, have patients who have a justifiably jaded and therefore degreatory view of the medical profession, and you will be stressed out for the rest of your life. Unless you go into derm. The only folks who I know who aspired to go into derm found it interesting but really saw being a physician as a means to make $$$$, regardless of the humanistic element.

Bottom line, you are still ignorant (this word does not contain a negative connotation) as to the realities of the medical profession and what being a physician entails. However you are not alone. College campus' are loaded with folks just like you.

If you wanna be a doc, go for it.

 

[Chrisobean]

Originally posted by bella_dottoressa
How many of us before we entered college even knew DOs existed? I thought I was a pretty smart 17 year old, but I hadn't a clue. All I knew..all I knew since I was tiny was that I wanted to be a doctor. My doctor was called an M.D. and so were all the ones I knew. That became engrained. Doctor = MD. Then I get to college and it isn't until then, and finding these boards, that I figure out what DOs are. Does the thought of being a DO immediately seem equivalent to me? Nope. But after a while, you mature, don't you? You realize that as a DO you'd do the same thing, wear the same white coat...be the same person. The same person! The second I realized that I knew that I would apply to both. Because all I want is to practice medicine and I know there are smarter people than me out there. People with higher GPAs and MCATs. An acceptance ANYWHERE is what I want. It took me a little while but I warmed up to the idea of being a DO quickly.

exactly.
my pre-med advisor told me to go for DO once he saw my first mcat score. i was highly insulted, being that i had not a clue what it was. i had never been to one, i couldnt even tell you if there are any practicing where i live. but then i dug a little deeper and realized it was the same. i applied to NYCOM b/c it is the second closest school to my boyfriend. i went to their open house, spoke to current students, and it left such a positive impression on me. everyone i met seemed to be truly happy where they were, happy just to be given the chance to become a doctor. i'll be honored to attend ANY school that will give me the chance.
the people i know who are in the caribbean will outright tell you they went there b/c they couldnt get in anywhere else. they dont sound too happy. they study all the time and just want to get out of there asap. i dont want to be in an environment like that. and i hate to fly. i guess that's more than my 2 cents worth.

 

[Goofyone]

OP:

Please, don't take this the wrong way.

Have you really thought through your decision to go to medical school? I mean REALLY thought about it? Thought about WHY you really want to be a physician?

If the answers are:

1. Chicks (status)
2. Money
3. Power
4. Chicks (status)

then you might want to rethink things.

Seriously though. I could understand if you have legitimate concerns about getting a residency, having to pay lots of money, etc--all valid reasons for struggling with a decision like yours. But to base your decision on other people's perceptions is essentially to let others control your life. Just a thought. Think it through, man.

To echo the other posters, and I say this without sarcasm and with the utmost sincerity: if you are having serious doubts about the DO degree, do yourself and the entire Osteopathic profession a favor, and go Carribean (or wait a year). We really don't need any more people in the Osteopathic profession that are going to be embarassed by or feel inferior because of their degree--and this is coming from someone who doesn't even like OMM.

If you'd like some more advice from someone who was faced with a DO/MD decision, feel free to PM me anytime.

Congratulations and good luck.

 

[oceandoc]

Check out the "Osteopathic Principles and Philosophy" thread going on in the Osteopathic Medical Students forum.

Like JKDmed said, when you really think about it, a lot of the stigma thing with the DO is the prestige (ie the car analogy). And, like homo-whats his name said, if you're going into medicine for the prestige, you need to examine your motives for going into medical school. I know that every little kid who dreams of one day becoming a doctor thinks about how the initials "MD" will sound after their name, or maybe even praticed writing their signature like that; you know, while daydreaming in class like the girly girls do when they practice their signature with the last name of some guy like the captain of the football team? So, the MD is kind of like that hot guy/girl you really wanted but never could get in high school, but later on you realized you only wanted him or her because they were superficially beautiful and you would have liked the idea of being hotshot-so-and so's boyfriend/girlfriend. and, of course, you would have been proud, like you say you would if you had an MD.

As has been said, when it really comes down to it, an MD or a DO is a physician, and physicians work with patients and use medicine to help people (people who don't care what letters are on your degree, they just want you to help them not die). When people think of doctors in the healing sense, they should use the word physician, not doctor. A lawyer gets a Juris Doctorate, we could call lawyers doctors if they really really wanted us to and it was curtural practice to do so.

As a DO student, I am really impressed with the quality of the education I'm getting, and I'm glad that I get anatomy review every week in the form of OMM class, which is also a good way of practicing how to touch a patient. I know that I'm taking 4 years away from my life, just like an MD student, to learn histology, anatomy, bacteriology, pathology, etc, etc, etc...just like an MD student. I'm a medical student...and so are they. I will be a physician, and they will be too.

I'm kind of curious if there's any other degree designations out there that have caused so much controversy within a profession as the MD/DO debate. The dentist kiddos always tell us that DDS/DMD is no issue, and I haven't heard of anything else. I Know that if you're a Sci. D or a Ph D it's pretty much considered the same. What about people who get a BA in biology or physics or some other science as opposed to a BS in the same? Isn't that a different approach to learning that science, in some way? I have a good friend who has BS, not a BA, in English. Is her degree less legitamate?

 

[oceandoc]

Check out the "Osteopathic Principles and Philosophy" thread going on in the Osteopathic Medical Students forum.

Like JKDmed said, when you really think about it, a lot of the stigma thing with the DO is the prestige (ie the car analogy). And, like VentdependenT said, if you're going into medicine for the prestige, you need to re-examine your motives. I know that every little kid who dreams of one day becoming a doctor thinks about how the initials "MD" will sound after their name, or maybe even praticed writing their signature like that; you know, while daydreaming in class like the girly girls do when they practice their signature with the last name of some guy like the captain of the football team? So, the MD is kind of like that hot guy/girl you really wanted but never could get in high school, but later on you realized you only wanted him or her because they were superficially beautiful and you would have liked the idea of being hotshot-so-and so's boyfriend/girlfriend. and, of course, you would have been proud, like you say you would if you had an MD.

As has been said, when it really comes down to it, an MD or a DO is a physician, and physicians work with patients and use medicine to help people (people who don't care what letters are on your degree, they just want you to help them not die). When people think of doctors in the healing sense, they should use the word physician, not doctor. A lawyer gets a Juris Doctorate, we could call lawyers doctors if they really really wanted us to and it was curtural practice to do so.

As a DO student, I am really impressed with the quality of the education I'm getting, and I'm glad that I get anatomy review every week in the form of OMM class, which is also a good way of practicing how to touch a patient. I know that I'm taking 4 years away from my life, just like an MD student, to learn histology, anatomy, bacteriology, pathology, etc, etc, etc...just like an MD student. I'm a medical student...and so are they. I will be a physician, and they will be too.

I'm kind of curious if there's any other degree designations out there that have caused so much controversy within a profession as the MD/DO debate. The dentist kiddos always tell us that DDS/DMD is no issue, and I haven't heard of anything else. I Know that if you're a Sci. D or a Ph D it's pretty much considered the same. What about people who get a BA in biology or physics or some other science as opposed to a BS in the same? Isn't that a different approach to learning that science, in some way? I have a good friend who has BS, not a BA, in English. Is her degree less legitamate?

 

[Amy B]

Wow, some DO and MD schools will take you with 90 credits, but it is really rare to get into one without a degree. Now here is something to consider.

Would you want to go to a doctor who was never able to get a college degree? Who only had 2 years of college before med school. Maybe it wouldn't matter but look at what I ran across on that carribean web site.

It said......""""""Most of these schools require at least three years of undergrad, but some will accept students after only two years."""""""

How bizzare. They accept people with ONLY 2 years of college???? Talk about letting anyone in. How can they determine from only 2 years if that person is qualified to study medicine. Perhap
s I am being arrogant in my thinking, but to me that is a clear sign that they are taking people mearly to fill up seats and get tuition.

 

[VentdependenT]

Oceandoc, I appreciate the homo slam

Just kidden

 

[oceandoc]

oops. i didn't mean to post twice. some guy in the military forum uses that same icon, his name is homonucleus (i think) and i realized it wasn't him that i was replying to after I hit sent...so i tried to change it to your name, but you still got to see my dumb post twice. ooops. I blame it on 4 exams in the last 9 days, and I'm going to bed.

 

[bigmuny]

To the OP:
Don't do either. Practice some restraint, wait a year or two, work hard, and get into the school you want(in 15 years you won't notice the time lost). If you are uncomfortable about the whole DO thing, than you will likely regret your decision. I would think hard about the islands for several reasons(though I know SGU is a decent program, and they actually have better clinical education than many DO schools). First, the body that determines the number of residency spots(maybe acgme?, i forget) has been looking into cutting the number of available residency positions to 110% of us grads(md). If they do this now, or any time in the near future most fmg's will be screwed(DOs will be screwed as well, but to a lesser degree because we have some of our own programs). Keep in mind that once you leave the US it is possible that you might not be able to get back for residency(policies can change at any time). Second, it will make getting a choice residency more challenging, in addition to all the other BS yoy will have to go through getting back. Good luck, I hope you will be patient.

 

[VentdependenT]

DO's won't be included in that cut you speak of because we are US grads. At least that is how I understood it.

 

[wholehealth]

The DO I shadowed has taken a lot of time to mentor me and talk about the profession, the conflicts, patient ethics, etc..... and yesterday, we spoke about obtaining residencies. He went to osteopathic school in the 80's (when we were even less well known and accepted), and obtained a residency at John Hopkins over several students from Hopkins med school. He said that the Hopkins students were no better trained than he was, and that it was all about how hard you work individually. One of his residents told him that being a good resident included being a good clerk. He was ahead of the game and had things done before they asked for it, and he said that a lot of the students at Hopkins were in med school due to parental influence, etc...and were just lazy. He went on to add that the osteopathic schools generally are full of students who truly want to be a physician and will do whatever it takes.

My point is that the prestige of being an M.D. is only in the mind of those not in the field at present. There are five m.d.'s in our office and they all refer to D.O.'s and vice versa. If you are a good physician, it doesn't matter what letters are after your name. SGU seems to be a good school....even more pricey than the osteopathic schools, but to each his own. I'm sure you will complete your goal of becoming a physician either way. I looked at Saba in the Carib before retaking my MCAT, and I talked to a chief resident in the US who graduated from there. Anything is possible!!! How hard you want to work is up to you...ok, off my soapbox...good luck with your decision.

 

[Homunculus]

Originally posted by oceandoc
oops. i didn't mean to post twice. some guy in the military forum uses that same icon, his name is homonucleus (i think) and i realized it wasn't him that i was replying to after I hit sent...so i tried to change it to your name, but you still got to see my dumb post twice. ooops. I blame it on 4 exams in the last 9 days, and I'm going to bed.

what about my icon?

i thought i'd chime in and say i agree with JKD's post. funny, but pretty close to the truth

 

[Fenrezz]

Originally posted by Goofyone
Have you really thought through your decision to go to medical school? I mean REALLY thought about it? Thought about WHY you really want to be a physician?

If the answers are:

1. Chicks (status)
2. Money
3. Power
4. Chicks (status)

then you might want to rethink things.

I'm happy to say that my reasons for going into medicine are not anything as general as those. And anyone shallow enough to be a doctor for those reasons really should rethink things. Something like this would be more approproate:

1. Strippers (free friction dance)
2. Really fast cars/home theater system/big house
3. Ability to yell at people below me without getting punched in the face
4. Strippers (great way to impress my MD buddies)

It's always easier to see the light at the end of the tunnel when your goals are more specific.

And I vote Homonculus' icon the best on SDN.

 

[dollarbincommon]

Originally posted by JKDMed
Personally, I prefer DO. I like the philosophy, I like the atmosphere of the schools, and I like the people involved with osteopathy. I also like the rich history of the profession and its origin (AMERICA). I see osteopathy as the future of medicine.

I don't know why this never occurred to me. It's so obvious.

Origin of MD = European

Origin of DO = American (or in my case, Americas)

I like that; D.O. as the Americas' creation. I think I'm going to include this in my personal statement.