Looking for genuine advice, I am really lost and confused please help

[anon1999]

Hello to all SDN users,

I am looking for advice on where I should steer my medical career. I am a 24 year old man enrolled at a local university’s postbacc program currently. Here’s a little background on my story.

From 2017 to 2024, I spent six years at my state university and local university after, during of which I earned a 1.135 science gpa first year, 1.00 science gpa second year, 3.0 science gpa third year, 3.6 science gpa fourth year, 3.6 science gpa fifth year, 3.4 science gpa sixth year and finally a 3.31 science gpa seventh year(should I get all As during the summer). I have taken General Biology I twice in 2017, earning a D and a C, then General Chemistry I twice in 2018, earning a F and then a C, General Chemistry II twice, a W in 2021 and a B+ Fall 2023, Organic Chemistry I once in Spring 2024, earning a C and General Physics I once in Fall 2023, earning a B and General Physics II once in Spring 2024, earning a C.

I tried my absolute hardest in Spring 2024 while taking Organic Chemistry I, General Physics II, Anatomy and Physiology II and Genetics at the same time. I put in over 280 hours but unfortunately the reality is earning C’s in Orgo I and Physics II is an incredibly bad look, especially given that I am trying to contrast it with a reinvention story.

In Jan of 2022, I was diagnosed with ADHD and have started taking medication as appropriate. Ever since then, I went from a Cs and Ds student to a B+/A student. With the exception of a few Bs, two C’s and a C+, the last two years my grades have always been B+/A on average. In fact, these were 25 stem/upper level classes that I performed in. With Summer of 2024 approaching, I will be tackling Orgo II, Biochemistry I and Microbiology. I have two months before the classes begin and I plan on working even harder to make sure I secure the As and come back to the upward trend narrative.

I need advice on how I should explain this to admissions. My plan is to be transparent and disclose my ADHD diagnosis. Including use of medication. I know ADHD is dramatically over diagnosed but in my situation, going from an average of Ds and Fs in stem to As/B+s is a story worth explaining in my personal narrative.

I know my chances are once again not looking too good with my recent performance in Orgo I and Physics II but genuinely in my heart, I have put in more hours than the next guy. I studied every single day for hours and it was one of those situations where I could not control the situation. How can I explain this to admissions and make sure that they don’t see it as my slipping to old habits, other than acing the summer 2024 courses?

I initially sought to take a gap year, study for the MCAT, hopefully do well and then apply. However, with this new situation, I suspect I might need more reinvention. At this stage in my career, I am financially left dry so I am thinking of pursuing a ABSN second degree program back at my state university near home for commute, work for three years and try to accumulate as much clinical experience, study for the MCAT and then apply to DO medical schools only.

My chances at MD schools are slim to none, but I have heard DO medical schools reword reinvention and as a matter of fact, AACOMAS factors in nursing courses part of their science gpa, as they are more lenient. Correct if I am wrong please.

I have all the necessary extra curriculars, which include being a firefighter for 18 months, three research publications and more incoming, leadership positions in clubs and more. Keep in mind this only happened after the diagnosis of my ADHD. With three additional years as a nurse, I believe I should also have the clinical experience as well, as I am severely lacking in that department. Please let me know if I am heading the right direction, I am genuinely lost and all my advisors have told me to give up and pack it home. I do not know who else to turn to at this point.

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[anon1999]

I forgot to mention my cumulative as of now is a 3.1 college gpa, 3.2 science gpa, as per the AACOMAS scaling

 

[anon1999]

Another thing is that I want to dedicate this time for three years to do some soul searching while working as a nurse by becoming a substance abuse/alcohol counselor and a suicide counselor. I also want to publish as many research publications on the ADHD brain, my first two papers were on neurosurgical publications but last one was on ADHD. I genuinely want to study the neuropsychology of the ADHD brain while also helping those in need as a substance abuse/alcohol counselor and suicide counselor. I need more purpose and soul searching but I am not sure if its the correct decision.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Looks to me like a very clear link between ADHD and problems with your grades. That said, you should retake all the basic courses and prove you can do well. Your MCAT will make it or break it for you. Be very transparent about your journey in your personal statement. You can talk about your desire to do research, but don't forget these schools try to find people going into primary care, so don't make that the focal point of your personal statement

 

[anon1999]

Thank you for the reply. So I have Orgo II, Biochemistry and Microbiology coming up this summer. I want to try and get A's this summer to offset the C's I got in Orgo I and Physics II, despite working hard. This time around, I would like to hire a tutor. With that said, even if I can turn it around and prove to admissions that I am not reverting to old habits, do you believe I should take the delayed route to going the nursing route for three years to accumulate clinical experience, improve the AACOMAS gpa using the nursing school courses as they count, then take the MCAT and apply later on or should I go for the MCAT straight away this summer and see what happens? I want to make sure I do it right once good.

 

[anon1999]

Assuming I get all As in the accelerated nursing program, my new gpa will be 3.3 cgpa, 3.5 sgpa from the 3.1 college gpa, 3.2 science gpa, as per the AACOMAS scaling. I want to demonstrate the upward trend narrative not only this summer for the remaining prereqs but also the accelerated nursing program, if I am right in my assessment that nursing classes count towards the AACOMAS science gpa.

 

[Starr_key]

First of all, that's a huge jump and you should be proud of yourself for improving! Setbacks happen, and that's okay.

I wouldn't rule out MDs completely, some MD schools do reward re-invention (which ones that would be, idk though maybe someone else would know) but I'd take a look.

If you can, I actually recommend doing an SMP program where you can take medical school courses. That will show both MD and DO schools you can handle a med school curriculum and if you do well, they will weigh that GPA more heavily.

Programs I've heard good things about:
-Boston
-Georgetown
-TCOM
-Mississippi College (this is the one I did and I highly recommend)
-Tulane

Good luck!! I also agree your MCAT will help you out too.

 

[anon1999]

Thank you for the response. I have heard about SMPs but I am so financially exhausted that I don't think its doable. It's why I am relying on AACOMAS leniency with including more science classes as part of their science gpa for the reinvention.

 

[MaryAccepted]

There are lots of legitimate reasons people struggle academically, and I've had my fair share of med applicant clients who have similar ADHD diagnosis stories. It's key that your demonstrated improvement corresponds with a diagnosis, perhaps meds, and insightful management. And it will matter how you tell this story - a growth story, a resilience story, or as an "own and adapt" story? Also, consider asking a science professor / mentor who observed this transformation to speak toward it in a LOR.

 

[anon1999]

Thank you for your response. Yes I do have a neurosurgeon mentor I have known for 5 years now, although he does not know of my academics, I plan on disclosing the truth so that he may convey my growth on a LOR. As of now, the best decision for me it is that it seems to go through the nursing route to increase my AACOMAS gpa and then wait to convey the story through a personal narrative.

 

[anon1999]

Hello all,

As an update, I have discussed my situation with my parents and also revealed my plan. My parents in general are well off but having paid for undergraduate education over the last 7 years, along with incurring federal and private loans to my name, my parents are advising me to pursue a RN program through a local community college. I am completely okay with this because it will save a lot of money knowing that I can not only commute from home but also ease up on the financial burden for my parents. I only have one concern however. I know medical schools tend to look down on people who have taken classes at a community college based on the threads I have read here. I really would like to go through with this plan my parents suggested but I do not want to already test my borderline application and make it harder for myself. What do you suggest I take?

 

[anon1999]

I fully intend to disclose the financial constraints on my personal statement as well before applying for DO

 

[anon1999]

I am thinking of spending the next 3-5 years working as a RN in psychiatric department, as well as a suicide crisis intervention and drug/alcohol counselor. I only have a genuine interest to focus in on these areas because I remember how much I personally struggled without ADHD diagnosis and medication during my early years. I also believe it will give me a compelling story/narrative to talk about when it's all said and done instead of rushing my entire application.

 

[unusualonion]

LONG POST ALERT ❗ TLDR at END

I have a similar story, albeit my grade issues stem from a loss in my immediate family, sending me into a very deep depression. Ended undergrad with sub 3.0 c/sGPA but a similarly massive upward trend.

I enrolled in a DIY post-bacc program and re-took a decent chunk of my pre-health classes as well as running through the entire "health related" classes from a 1 credit med term class to mammalian physiology. At the end of that, I scored a 494 on the MCAT... a real kick in the shins. With that, my new pre-health advisor served up podiatry on a silver platter. I took the bait and applied, matriculated and left in a calendar year. It was a great foray into graduate medical education and almost like an SMP.

After I left podiatry school, I retook the MCAT and scored a cool 500, posters on this very website said I was cooked and that no AdCom would admit someone who couldn't even finish podiatry school. I listened and pivoted. I was going to go the accelerated BSN->NP/CRNA route and settle comfortably into the mid-level role. Good money for less debt and time in school. a genuine win-win.

However, I tell you all of this because admissions are weird. I applied for DO... and got in! I can't say what piece of my application got me in but what I can say is this: if you think becoming a physician is what you want to do, you have to try for it. Even if you dont get a single interview or offer, you'll know. It'll sting and hurt, but you can move on knowing you took your shot.

My advice is:

-Rock the classes you are in/going to take. If you do not have to work to support yourself, make your classes your life. obviously be kind to yourself and be fair about breaks and time off.

-I would avoid the nursing program altogether until you've applied. I had to explain the pivot from podiatry to medicine and it was not easy. Avoid this if clinical experience is all you are hoping to get from it. Pursuing an RN license may send the wrong signals as there are paths to independent practice as an RN.

-Speaking of clinical experience, you can volunteer in an ED, be a scribe, work as an EMT (idk what state you are in but where I am its a super easy summer course to get your basic cert), or even be an MA/PCNA/ED tech/Psych tech/sitter, etc. Experience is expected to be a low-license or unlicensed thing. You mentioned being a firefighter, are you a fire-medic? If not, im sure your city has some ties to that same community college to get you an EMT license.

-To play devil's advocate for the non-SMP crowd, they have their time and place. Its great to have MCAT prep and med-school level classes baked into a curriculum. In my eyes, as cynical as it seems, these programs are often times money-making avenues for the school. They know how desperate many pre-meds are and are willing to dangle the "guaranteed interview with certain criteria met" carrot for app $ +tuition. Few friends and former co-worker did them only to be left with a kind of useless masters, more debt, and no admission. I can rant for hours about this but i digress. Don't hit me with "not all of them", yes, I know.

-Be vulnerable and honest in your personal statement. I was clear and upfront about the loss of a family member as well as why podiatry wasn't for me. However, copping to your faults is only half the equation. You must look inward and tell the committees what you've learned about yourself and how all of it relates to becoming a physician. My story is a bit cliche with the whole "my family member died" but being candid and "real" about it, i think, helped.

-MCAT is your "silver bullet" or your noose. A high enough score can really show adcoms you can put your nose to the grindstone and commit to something for a long period of time. Equally, a crummy score can sink your ship. I don't mean to be harsh, but the gravity of this test is huge. If you can swing studying for it while in classes over the summer, even if its content review and test taking strategy, do it. If not, once classes are over, dedicate any time you aren't getting clinical experience to it. PM for my specific study schedule... even though I didn't do that well 😭

TLDR: I have a similar story and got my crap together by getting therapy and taking more classes while getting experience. Advice as above.

 

[anon1999]

@unusualonion Thank you for sharing your amazing story. Your story gives me hope that there is a possibility to keep going. While pursuing an RN license does give me clinical experience, I am also pursuing it for financial reasons for a fallback as I am severely in debt and financially wrought my parents, not to mention at the very least nursing classes count for the AACOMAS science gpa calculation. I plan on making the MCAT my top priority and intend to dedicate a 1-2 hour atleast to it for a very long period of time and increase the hours as I approach the date. It definitely is a career-deciding test and I will treat it as such. I have always avoided the SMPs because not only is it really expensive to pursue, but it always seemed like a bait to prey on people, not to mention the idea of getting a 4.0 in all medical school level courses seems very unrealistic and not to mention a huge gamble to take, should you perform subpar. All in all, I have a very steep upward trend and I hope the two Cs in Orgo I and Physics II don't deter admissions, because I geniunely tried my best in those courses but it was not meant to be. I took those courses alongside Genetics and Anatomy/Phys II, in which I earned an A in both. With a 3.1 cgpa, 3.2 sgpa, my only hope to secure a spot is to do really well on the MCAT.

I still want to pursue medicine but I also want to be realistic while also taking calculated risks. The last thing I want is to go in as if I have nothing to lose and then end up with absolutely nothing, with only thousands of dollars in student debt to show for.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Thank you for the reply. So I have Orgo II, Biochemistry and Microbiology coming up this summer. I want to try and get A's this summer to offset the C's I got in Orgo I and Physics II, despite working hard. This time around, I would like to hire a tutor. With that said, even if I can turn it around and prove to admissions that I am not reverting to old habits, do you believe I should take the delayed route to going the nursing route for three years to accumulate clinical experience, improve the AACOMAS gpa using the nursing school courses as they count, then take the MCAT and apply later on or should I go for the MCAT straight away this summer and see what happens? I want to make sure I do it right once good.

Do you want to be a doctor or do you want to be a nurse? I don't have a problem with someone from nursing learning they want to be a doctor, but I do have trouble when it comes someone using up a nursing spot during a shortage of nurses when their goal is not to be a nurse

 

[anon1999]

Thank you for your response. I do want to be a nurse in the sense that I want to work with patients in the psychiatric area first, because I struggled with my academics before ADHD diagnosis/medication before applying to medical school. I genuinely think that working 2-3 years in this area could make my narrative more authentic. And the other reasons are also due to the finances, as I am very in debt in my loans and see that working a few years as a nurse can not only pay off my loans but also help my parents. My ultimate goal is to be a physician but I am willing to delay gratification. I am not sure if the reasons I stated make me seem genuine, please let me know

 

[anon1999]

I believe that working in the psychiatric area as a nurse can help better understand not only my ADHD but also other mental illness to a higher degree. In which case, would end up help me become a better physician in the empathetic area

 

[unusualonion]

Thank you for your response. I do want to be a nurse in the sense that I want to work with patients in the psychiatric area first, because I struggled with my academics before ADHD diagnosis/medication before applying to medical school. I genuinely think that working 2-3 years in this area could make my narrative more authentic. And the other reasons are also due to the finances, as I am very in debt in my loans and see that working a few years as a nurse can not only pay off my loans but also help my parents. My ultimate goal is to be a physician but I am willing to delay gratification. I am not sure if the reasons I stated make me seem genuine, please let me know

1. I am kind of on Albino's side with the nursing thing. The point of nursing school is to become (and generally stay) a nurse and contribute to caring for others as a nurse. You can achieve the same personal authenticity as a psych assistant/inpatient psych technician/PCNA on a psych floor. No license so easier route to entry. You get to do patient care but you'll also be around psych residents and attendings so you can pick their brains. I did this when I was an EMT and an ICU clinical tech. Obviously pays less but as long as you can pay on your loans with an IBR, don't worry about it. I now work in clinical research at a hospital and that pays nearly the same to an early-career nurse. There's usually psych research going on if you want a more "independent" feel to working with patients.

2. Financially, pod school and undergrad left me with a crazy amount of debt. I know its a bit foolhardy, but between the SAVE plan and PSLF, I'm not overly worried about paying it off. I also have a partner who is an engineer and is endlessly supportive. They also do not mind subsidizing my poor education decisions lol. Also, physician mortgages and other affinity programs for young docs make it still financially attractive to achieve this.

3. "authenticity" and "genuine" can come across in your personal statement, sans the 2-3 year delay. I was severely depressed and got the help I needed outside of any experiences. I was candid about the therapy and the impact it had on me. I didn't need to also demonstrate how the therapy or depression by working in the psych field. Additionally, wanting to work in psych can be a good part of your PS, but shouldn't be the central thrust. You may end up pigeonholing yourself.

4. If your ultimate goal is to become a physician, then commit to it. It can be scary to put your eggs in one basket without a 'plan B.' But you'll know that you gave it all you can. That nursing program will always be there and you can be a psych NP and be able to see patients independently.

I know this may seem harsh and mean but it is important to commit yourself to this process. Delaying it will only cause you more anxiety. Also working as a nurse (or MA/tech/scribe) will drain you. You won't want to study for the MCAT after a long day. Then you'll feel guilty for not studying. Its a downward spiral that I am very aware of. I was in my post-bacc, working as a tech, and trying to study for the MCAT... I got a 495.

Feel free to DM if you would like to continue this conversation! I am more than happy to go over the steps I took, in more detail as well as other stuff I did to get me here.

 

[karaya]

I believe that working in the psychiatric area as a nurse can help better understand not only my ADHD but also other mental illness to a higher degree. In which case, would end up help me become a better physician in the empathetic area

I think you're overvaluing the significance of this nursing angle. The comprehension you'll gain as a nurse does not compare to the training you'll receive as a med student and resident. Your point about using nursing income to help your parents seems moot--the math doesn't work. Nurses don't make a whole lot, maybe $100K. After taxes, living expenses, and loan repayment, how much is left for your parents? And you will work this job for only 3 years? That hardly seems worth the 2 years of education and $10-20k of additional loans. You don't need nursing to become a doctor. You don't need it to be "authentic." You can get your clinical experience faster and cheaper. Think about it: in 5 years you could be applying to medical school, or you could be preparing for residency.

Also, AlbinoHawk has a good point. We need dedicated nurses, not people who are using nursing as a stepping stone to something bigger. Personal anecdote: at my hospital we had a travel nurse come in, 25-year-old hotshot and recent graduate who was talking about how he "used to be a premed but now I'm gonna go CRNA." He left halfway through his shift and dumped his patients, because his cat was having a "medical emergency." Don't be that guy. Nursing is its own profession and demands a lot of respect and diligence, which this person clearly lacked because his eyes were fixated on the future.

 

[ahnonemoose]

Let's define ABSN. Accelerated Bachelor of Science in Nursing. It's largely a marketing term. It can mean a BSN starting in January and finishing in December. That translates to 11 months to do a BSN. There are a few of these left. The attrition rate in these programs is 40-50%.

Up until late in the previous millennium, BSN programs followed a traditional, 4-year degree plan with summers off. The first two academic years were spent taking 60 hours of foundational and distribution courses. The final 2 years were spent taking 60 hours of nursing courses. In other words, the last 4 semesters were solely devoted to nursing courses. Today, when a student takes 4 consecutive semesters without a summer break somewhere in the middle, many schools market this as an accelerated BSN. It's still 4 semesters of coursework. Regular nursing programs typically have at least a 15% attrition rate.

It is difficult to graduate from nursing school with a GPA high enough to look good on a medical school application. If you don't want to be a nurse, please don't apply. Nursing prepares you to be a nurse, not a doctor. Not even being a nurse practitioner prepares you to be a doctor. Going to nursing school isn't a consolation prize for failing to get into medical school. It's for people who want to be nurses.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Thank you for your response. I do want to be a nurse in the sense that I want to work with patients in the psychiatric area first, because I struggled with my academics before ADHD diagnosis/medication before applying to medical school. I genuinely think that working 2-3 years in this area could make my narrative more authentic. And the other reasons are also due to the finances, as I am very in debt in my loans and see that working a few years as a nurse can not only pay off my loans but also help my parents. My ultimate goal is to be a physician but I am willing to delay gratification. I am not sure if the reasons I stated make me seem genuine, please let me know

I believe that working in the psychiatric area as a nurse can help better understand not only my ADHD but also other mental illness to a higher degree. In which case, would end up help me become a better physician in the empathetic area

It doesn't come off as genuine. It really does show that it is a stepping stone. There's no doubt to anyone here you're passionate about patient care and that you need money, but it is also no doubt that being a nurse is not your ultimate goal. It's much better to work toward become a physician if that's what you want. Otherwise, if money is such an issue, just compromise already and become a PA