Are 2nd looks necessary?

[jkl]

Hello,

I'm beginning to feel pressured to take 2nd looks at my top 1-2 choices, from what friends have said. But I was wondering if they were really necessary?

For all the residents out there, did any of you NOT do a 2nd look at your top choices and still match there?

I'd like to do a 2nd look at a couple of places, but it would cost $$ to fly out, etc...so i'm 2nd guessing doing 2nd looks...

Any insight would be much appreciated! Thanks!

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[waterski232002]

Additionally, can second looks hurt you... do they expect you to see patients and watch your performance? I would rather just informally observe for an hour or two... is that okay?

 

[jkl]

Additionally, can second looks hurt you... do they expect you to see patients and watch your performance? I would rather just informally observe for an hour or two... is that okay?

i don't think we're allowed to see pts on our own (legal reasons, etc). so i think we act as observers -- probably following a resident around for a shift. they might still pimp us though?

 

[roja]

We have had a few come back and take second looks. (granted a trip to NYC, alot of people dont' find hard to justify. ) I didn't come back and take a second look and this was my first choice.

There are slight advantages, in that if you are doing a second look at a program that listens to its residents (like ours) and the residents liked you and pass it on to the PD. (like a few of us did for a particular interviewee.....)

however, if you are really liked in our program, it doesn't really make that much of a difference.

 

[Seaglass]

They are certainly not necessary, and with few exceptions, will probably not get you ranked higher.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

They are certainly not necessary, and with few exceptions, will probably not get you ranked higher.

Agreed. Didn't second look anywhere. Matched number one.

 

[pinbor1]

I did a second look at my number one choice. Not so much to try and up my ranking. I did it to look at one of their hospital sites that I was not familiar with. I think it is a good idea if it will help you make a decision with where you want to rank them. Especially when it comes to multihospital residencies.

 

[paisley05]

Just got back from taking a second look out east and you're right it is a lot of money and work and I don't know if it makes that much of a difference in how the program will rank me. I think that it was totally worth it for me though. Reinforced how much i liked the program. It was good to get to see the type of patients that both hospitals had, how things ran, how much scut the residents were doing, the charting system, how the interactions were between the residents, attendings, nursing staff, etc. Even if it would have turned out that I didn't get that much out of the second look, Roja's right, it was a could excuse to go back to nyc for a few days. Anyway, there's my two cents.

 

[margaritaboy]

Agreed. Didn't second look anywhere. Matched number one.

ditto.

 

[jkl]

Thanks everyone! That helps alot. I don't feel as pressured anymore. I'll probably take a 2nd look if the program is relatively nearby (ie, driving distance < 3hrs), but probably not if I have to buy a plane ticket. And you're right, my 2nd look should be more for my own benefit to make sure I want to go there... Thanks again everyone!

 

[joaquin13]

For me, the idea of a 2nd look seems kind of strange. I guess I would feel awkward, like I was in the way of the residents trying to work....and what if you were assigned to work with a resident you really didn't get along with? I guess it seems like added stress & energy on top of a long application process already! I would kind of feel like I was in the way. Im not really planning on doing a 2nd look at any program...

 

[jkl]

I guess it seems like added stress & energy on top of a long application process already!

that is a good point...

 

[Sheerstress]

There are slight advantages, in that if you are doing a second look at a program that listens to its residents (like ours) and the residents liked you and pass it on to the PD. (like a few of us did for a particular interviewee.....)

A faculty member at one program where I rotated said that a "second look" might help a candidate who was average or marginal, or whom perhaps they did not remember very clearly from early in the interview season.

He readily admitted that this was not as true for the candidates who they really wanted - they got top rank order, but when trying to rank the rest, sometimes a couple of hours visiting the department in order to reaffirm their interest could help the candidate. Exactly how much I couldn't say.

I know of one gal who recently graduated from the general surgery program here in Kalamazoo - she did at least three "second looks," including scrubbing in on cases with attendings as an MS-IV. I don't know how good all her numbers and everything else were, but she definitely got everyone's attention, and was ranked very high!

In sum, it probably depends on you as a candidate, and the preferences of the specific program.

 

[Dr. Cowboy]

I used a "second look" at my top 3 programs to allow my wife to visit the cities that I liked on the interview trail. She was not able to travel on interviews with me and it seemed unfair to move without her input on the town, housing, schools, shopping, etc. While we were in town for the weekend, I met with the PD very briefly, visited with/met some residents I had not met on interview day, and made a point to search out specific residents who had similar interests (other than EM) as me. This worked out great for me and seemed to make my wife feel less like I was dragging her to some unknown place.

 

[srlondon]

Second looks are not by any means "required" to match at your top choice. However, if you really want to make a good impression at a place you liked or to try to help your case, a second look is a good idea. Put it this way... if there are two relatively similar candidates, both interviewed two months before the rank list was complied, but only one came for a second look and made a good impression, who do you think is going to get ranked higher?

 

[WilcoWorld]

Second looks are not by any means "required" to match at your top choice. However, if you really want to make a good impression at a place you liked or to try to help your case, a second look is a good idea. Put it this way... if there are two relatively similar candidates, both interviewed two months before the rank list was complied, but only one came for a second look and made a good impression, who do you think is going to get ranked higher?

The one whose name gets hit with the dart.

 

[bulgethetwine]

The one whose name gets hit with the dart.

That was Great... Post of the year as of Jan 14th!

 

[Scrubbs]

I didn't do any second looks and matched number 1.

That being said, I totally agree with what others have said. I tell applicants that second look at our program that it is for their own benefit. We spend equal time in 4 hospitals, and you only interview at 1. We show a little movie on our other locations, but its not the same as seeing it yourself. Certainly not necessary, but can help YOU make a decision. Good luck all!