Brown Medical School view on CRNAs

[drift]

Was just reading through some of the newer clinical guides set forth for clerkships from BMS and was shocked to find this written on what a CRNA is (mind you this is a medical school):

"This person is basically an anesthesiologist without a medical degree. She received her nursing degree just like other nurses, but completed an additional two years of training in anesthesia. You will often find her running most of the straightforward surgical cases from induction to recovery with the attending anesthesiologist dropping in at times to make sure everything is all right or when it is not."

And this is what the 3rd year med student is being told. Kind of makes me think how we brought this to ourselves.


Here is a link to the pdf file:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...sg=AFQjCNEaykM08FN5bAQcygaUFpServOoEw&cad=rja

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[deleted126335]

Was just reading through some of the newer clinical guides set forth for clerkships from BMS and was shocked to find this written on what a CRNA is (mind you this is a medical school):

"This person is basically an anesthesiologist without a medical degree. She received her nursing degree just like other nurses, but completed an additional two years of training in anesthesia. You will often find her running most of the straightforward surgical cases from induction to recovery with the attending anesthesiologist dropping in at times to make sure everything is all right or when it is not."

And this is what the 3rd year med student is being told. Kind of makes me think how we brought this to ourselves.


Here is a link to the pdf file:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...sg=AFQjCNEaykM08FN5bAQcygaUFpServOoEw&cad=rja

et tu Brute?

 

[switching2gas]

"This person is basically an anesthesiologist without a medical degree. She received her nursing degree just like other nurses, but completed an additional two years of training in anesthesia. You will often find her running most of the straightforward surgical cases from induction to recovery with the attending anesthesiologist dropping in at times to make sure everything is all right or when it is not."http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...sg=AFQjCNEaykM08FN5bAQcygaUFpServOoEw&cad=rja

Let's fix this for Brown:
"This person is basically a nurse who has been trained in anesthesia and fancies herself similar to an anesthesiologist, delighting in being allowed to run cases from induction to emergence without much (or any) oversight from an attending physician anesthesiologist. On closer inspection of this curious midlevel creature, one will find excellent pattern recognition skills and adherence to "protocol," but little cognitive understanding of the physiology behind the practice of anesthesia. You, as a third year medical student, know far more about physiology and pharmacology than these people who are putting your grandparents to sleep for their hips and knees, and putting your Mom to sleep for her TAH-BSO. Scared? You should be."

You're welcome, Brown.

 

[maceo]

somebody write BROWN and alert them to this issue. That doesnt sound like anything a physician would write. SOunds like a secretary wrote this..

 

[coffeebythelake]

somebody write BROWN and alert them to this issue. That doesnt sound like anything a physician would write. SOunds like a secretary wrote this..

or a CRNA

 

[coldweatherblue]

what exactly is "an anesthesiologist without a medical degree" anyway? Wouldn't it imply practicing medicine without a license?

 

[drift]

et tu Brute?

so true!

 

[Jay K]

what exactly is "an anesthesiologist without a medical degree" anyway? Wouldn't it imply practicing medicine without a license?

Like saying a paralegal is basically a lawyer without a law degree or having passed the board.

 

[LolaAnesthesia]

Like saying a paralegal is basically a lawyer without a law degree or having passed the board.

"A PA is basically a General Practitioner without a medical degree and was smart enough to not spend 7 years of his/her life becoming a Doctor."

THANK BROWNIES.... YOU ARE SOOOOO SMART!

 

[coldweatherblue]

ya know, in a lot of ways i agree:

"A nurse is basically a doctor who never graduated medical school and residency."

This is not the intent of the original quote but it is definitely how I interpret it.

 

[countingdays]

ya know, in a lot of ways i agree:

"A nurse is basically a doctor who never graduated medical school and residency."

This is not the intent of the original quote but it is definitely how I interpret it.

The quote is unnecessarily political. Saying that a crna is a nurse with extra training in anesthesia is clear and accurate. Saying 'basically a doctor' is a joke.

 

[NOLA RISING]

I got laid in providence once. Well, actually I jerked off with my left hand, its basically the same thing.

 

[leaverus]

MUST have a been a CRNA who wrote that. They probably had a representative from each specialty area write a little blurb about their job and happened to pick a particularly aggrieved anesthestist.

Sadly though, the perception that CRNAs "are basically anesthesiologists without the MD" is something we brought on ourselves. How does it look to the surgeons and patients when a CRNA is running a case from start to finish by themselves and the attending does nothing but sign the chart and look in once during the case if that even?

 

[sideways]

Does this mean anesthesiologists are basically CRNAs without the nursing degree?

 

[drift]

"A PA is basically a General Practitioner without a medical degree and was smart enough to not spend 7 years of his/her life becoming a Doctor."

THANK BROWNIES.... YOU ARE SOOOOO SMART!

I wouldn't generalize PAs & NPs/CRNAs as one and the other. They are vastly different in approaches/mentality/training. I have nothing against PAs, just NPs/CRNAs. Infact here is their description of PAs

Physician Assistant (PA)
These are medical personnel trained to assist physicians. PAs began as a natural extension of military medics who, after extensive training and experience, found themselves with a lot of skills, but no nursing
or medical degree to use them. Instead, they are somewhere in between. The PA position has been a natural springboard for these highly trained folks, and now PAs are trained through the military and many
universities with a two-year basic science and clinical curriculum resulting in a PA degree. They may do H&Ps, prescribe medications, perform bedside procedures (placing central lines, performing lumbar
punctures), and treat or assist in a diverse range of medical applications.

You will mostly see PAs working with doctors in outpatient settings. In the hospital, they often work in intensive care units (ICU) (managing patients in the neurosurgical ICU, while the residents perform surgeries), the emergency department, or see consults for physicians. PAs have been described as perpetual residents who actually get to go home at night. They do a lot and can teach you a great deal.

Seems to be spot-on to me.

 

[leaverus]

I just clicked that link - i thought it was gonna be an official Brown publication. It's just one those stupid "survival guides" put together by advanced (ignorant) med students for those about to start clerkships. I doubt any Brown administration are even aware of the existence of that thing. They probably assigned a med student to go interview a CRNA to find out what they do and that's what they were told. I gotta admit i didn't know what a CRNA was or did when i was a junior med student either.

 

[wine thief]

I just clicked that link - i thought it was gonna be an official Brown publication. It's just one those stupid "survival guides" put together by advanced (ignorant) med students for those about to start clerkships. I doubt any Brown administration are even aware of the existence of that thing.

I respectfully disagree my friend. this document is on the brown website. this document has the bms seal on the 1st page. the cover page calls it "a collaborative project between medical students and faculty." faculty advisors are listed by name.

btw, wtf is up with these medical students??

"It is the scut monkey kind of scut that you have to be on the lookout for and stop before you get stuck with more. If you are supposed to be at a conference, or if you are reading for an exam later in the week, or if you are supposed to be asleep – that is, if you are being taken advantage of by your seniors simply because you are the junior-most person around, then you are being scut monkey–scutted and you should not be. At the same time, scutwork can be a powerful bartering chip in exchange for teaching later on (as in: “I’ll be happy to go look up the labs for you if we can sit down later for 20 minutes and talk about COPD.” – this usually works). It can also earn you respect and gratitude from your team from helping them out. Learn to recognize when you are being used as a scut monkey so that you can remove yourself from the situation and get to work!"

pimping:
"You have the right – [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]and the obligation .– to tell someone when his pimping has crossed the line into condescension and triviality.
If that person dismisses your constructive criticism, you should feel comfortable letting Alex Morang or Dean Gruppuso know what you have experienced."
.

 

[drift]

The document was ok'ed by the faculty of this university.

It can be found on their med school website and It has their seal.

They are responsible for every word on it.

 

[periopdoc]

scutwork can be a powerful bartering chip in exchange for teaching later on (as in: “I’ll be happy to go look up the labs for you if we can sit down later for 20 minutes and talk about COPD.” – this usually works). It can also earn you respect and gratitude from your team from helping them out.

Seriously? That wouldn't earn "respect and gratitude" from me. That would earn a funny look, a silent F-you as I go off to look up the labs for myself, and a snide comment on evaluation. Who wrote this guide?

- pod

 

[Tuohy]

Brown doesn't even have an anesthesia residency program-in fact, they are essentially a private practice-thus, their allegiance is with CRNA's

 

[Mokki]

I got laid in providence once. Well, actually I jerked off with my left hand, its basically the same thing.

 

[LolaAnesthesia]

I wouldn't generalize PAs & NPs/CRNAs as one and the other. They are vastly different in approaches/mentality/training. I have nothing against PAs, just NPs/CRNAs. Infact here is their description of PAs

Physician Assistant (PA)
These are medical personnel trained to assist physicians. PAs began as a natural extension of military medics who, after extensive training and experience, found themselves with a lot of skills, but no nursing
or medical degree to use them. Instead, they are somewhere in between. The PA position has been a natural springboard for these highly trained folks, and now PAs are trained through the military and many
universities with a two-year basic science and clinical curriculum resulting in a PA degree. They may do H&Ps, prescribe medications, perform bedside procedures (placing central lines, performing lumbar
punctures), and treat or assist in a diverse range of medical applications.

You will mostly see PAs working with doctors in outpatient settings. In the hospital, they often work in intensive care units (ICU) (managing patients in the neurosurgical ICU, while the residents perform surgeries), the emergency department, or see consults for physicians. PAs have been described as perpetual residents who actually get to go home at night. They do a lot and can teach you a great deal.

Seems to be spot-on to me.

What part of my post being a joke didn't you get?

 

[MossPoh]

What part of my post being a joke didn't you get?

I'm going out on a limb with this one, but the joke part maybe?

 

[drift]

What part of my post being a joke didn't you get?

I'm going out on a limb with this one, but the joke part maybe?

my apologies comrade. Maybe I'm growing too old for this

 

[Johnisit1234]

I emailed the advisor listed on the first few pages about this. And she said that she has already received a handful of emails about this in the last week or two. She is working on getting it changed.

Good job SDNers!

 

[NOLA RISING]

I emailed the advisor listed on the first few pages about this. And she said that she has already received a handful of emails about this in the last week or two. She is working on getting it changed.

Good job SDNers!

Score one for the good guys

 

[foxtrot]

Brown doesn't even have an anesthesia residency program-in fact, they are essentially a private practice-thus, their allegiance is with CRNA's

Bingo. Not that this has anything to do with this thread but Rhode Island has one of the worst economies in the country and their unemployment rate is one of the highest. RI is a **** hole, who cares what the libtards at Brown think or say. Just watched Glenn Beck and I am fired up. I digress......

 

[Sandpaper]

Anyone has the email address of the advisor handy? I have a few people who would like to shoot her.....a quick email. Thanks.