clinical exposure in the PhD years

[DarkChild]

For those already in an MD/PhD program:
1) If any, what kind of clinical exposure do you have in your PhD years? Is it mandatory or voluntary?
2) How well does it work and how useful do you think it has been?

Here at the Tri-I we dont have anything like that. In fact, our PD is quite adamant that when in grad school we immerse ourselves in it 100% and as such, he sees clinical work as a distraction. There are obvious shortcomings to this point of view, but I'm curious as to how other programns handle this.

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[Doctor&Geek]

We had an interesting discussion pertaining to this during our annual retreat. Our PD's are quite clear that they want us to spend time in the laboratory without any clinical duties (protected time). I know other programs such as Columbia's have a longitudinal experience. Most of the clinicians I've talked to were more than a bit surprised and dismayed that we lacked longitudinal experience. However, many of our senior students didn't feel that the lack of clinical exposure during the PhD years was that detrimental.

That said if you're insistent on pursuing a clinical experience during your thesis research, remember that you can't touch anybody without liability insurance, which you may not have while a graduate student. It turns out that I have to buy some if I want to do any practice H&P's. Shadowing on the other hand, or developing relationships with attendings in your clinical field of interest, shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Vader]

At UCSF, we have an optional longitudinal clinical elective that provides clinical experience with a physician mentor of our choosing.

I think it is great that our program has this option, but I have not actually done it because I have personally found it beneficial to concentrate 100% on my thesis work (there also other distractions like journal clubs, seminars, etc to fill up the time).

 

[beary]

At Iowa, we have something called "clinical connections" during the Ph.D. years. It is a minimal time commitment with four half-days per semester. For each semester, we get to pick a mentor in any field we want. Most people use this time to briefly check out some specialties they may be interested in. I really have not found it to be all that useful because the time commitment is so small that I mostly just follow somebody around. Of course, there is no time for a greater commitment with focusing on lab work!

 

[b&ierstiefel]

For those already in an MD/PhD program:
1) If any, what kind of clinical exposure do you have in your PhD years? Is it mandatory or voluntary?
2) How well does it work and how useful do you think it has been?

At my school, we have the voluntary option of shadowing a physician during the PhD phase. I didn't exercise the option for mainly two reasons:
(1) I was solely focused on lab work and when I was juggling experiments on several different projects simultaneously, I just really didn't care about going into the wards.
(2) My classmates/buddies told me how much the wards sucked when you're a medical student...so I imagined that this would not be a good use of my time since I'd have to go through 3rd and 4th year of med school after the PhD phase anyway.

Plus, I'd rather be at the confocal microscope or watching a gel run over doing an H&P anyway.

 

[Habari]

I feel like 'longitudinal clinical training' is something that sounds great in theory, and especially to applicants, but once one is in their thesis years, it wouldn't be welcome as a mandatory component. There are plenty of volunteer opportunities one can pursue to 'keep in touch', or marginally expand whatever limited clinical skills one has acquired in the first two years. Though i'm sure the transition back to med school after the phd will be painful at first, and i'm pretty sure i'll do a residency, I'm personally looking forward to medical-school-free grad experience.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Though i'm sure the transition back to med school after the phd will be painful at first, and i'm pretty sure i'll do a residency, I'm personally looking forward to medical-school-free grad experience.

the force is strong in this one...

 

[Vader]

the force is strong in this one...

Most impressive...

 

[mdphd2b]

Hi DarkChild,

I'm a 3rd year PhD student in Pitt's MSTP. HEre, we are required to do not one but 2 Longitudinal Clinical Clerkships (LCC) duriing our PhD years, and a 3rd one is optional. Each clerkship is one-half day per week for 20 wk, at an outpatient specialty clinic and timing of our choosing. We are not allowed back to MS3 until we have done 2 LCC's. Furthermore, we actually start MS3 before beginning our PhD, ie after Step 1, we complete 8 wk of 3rd yr clerkships before grad school even starts. All of this amounts to 12 wk of credit towards MS3 when we return, so we have some flexibility in scheduling our thesis defense.

I have completed one LCC so far, and will be staring the next one in March. It was a real wake-up call to see how much clinical knowledge I had forgotten, even routine normal lab values meant nothing to me. Overall I really liked it, since I worked in a specialty close to my research, and got to experience first-hand how to balance research and clinical duties. Plus, it really motivated me to go to the lab the next day and get back to work so I could get out of here sooner! Nothing is more depressing than seeing your original med school class graduate, while you're left behind with the young'uns


PS--Love your quote from the Princess Bride too