Differential Equations v. Organic Chemistry

[Flack Pinku]

Hi,

I realize the two fields are totally different, but if you took Multivariable Calculus and/or Differential Equations, how would you compare the intesity of these math courses to Organic Chemistry 1 & 2?

The reason I ask this question is because I am a to-be sophomore in College, hoping to major in Biological Engineering. I've completed 2 semesters of Calculus Physics and one semester of Multivariable Calculus and one semester of Differential Equations (took the "Honors" versions of all of these).

However, I hear very bad things about Organic Chemistry and Biochemistry. Seriously, how bad can they be compared to the classes mentioned above?? Any insightful tips on how to get through safely and effectively?

I appreciate your responses!

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[Firebird]

I would like to know how you got Calc Physics I and II done during your freshman year. I would think that at LEAST Calc 1 would be required as a prereq...did you test out of all the calcs, because I would think Diff-EQ would be like after Calc III. And you're just going to be a sophomore? Maybe you could explain your timetable.

Anyway, I took Honors Calc I and made like a 92 or 93 in it and the first semester of Organic I made a 77 in. So there's you a good comparison. I retook Organic I, though, and made a 103. It takes lots of concentration, something I didn't have the first time I took it.

I don't think you can compare Calc and Organic, very easily. They're just too different.

 

[Flack Pinku]

I have a AP Calc BC score of 5. I started my freshman year off with Multivariable Calculus (Double, Triple integrals, Green's, Stokes's, and Divergence...) and then went off to Differential Equations.

At the same time, I have finished Physics Mechanics and Physics E/M.

 

[Tobtolip]

I haven't taken diff eq yet, but I've taken Calc III and I know its is a cakewalk compared to Orgo. Mainly because you can get away with just memorizng formulas then use a plug-and-chug method to get a good grade. Let's just say that memorization is important in orgo, but its not going to get you an A.

 

[Legend]

For me, differential equations was much easier than orgo simply because DE demanded less time of studying.

 

[Original]

They're both extremely easy courses. I took both those courses in my sophomore year just like you're planning to do. Don't listen to all the whinning about how hard organic chemistry is. The course is a freaking joke! Just put sufficient time aside to do the necessary memorization; and make sure you have good facility with the reaction mechanisms. I think what kills alot of premeds in organic is the huge amounts of fear that's instilled into them prior to taking the course. "ooooh aaah organic is so hard" . Do your own thing and tune-out from the pervasive whinning. You'll do just fine!. Have fun in D.E it's good stuff .

 

[brickmanli]

DiffQ was a joke at my school, I didn't go to any lectures and did better than everybody else. On the other hand, Organic (especially II) was a handful. I filled three five-subject notebooks and studied twenty hours a week. Of course, if I were at MIT then Differential Equations would be hard as hell, even more so than organic.

 

[Original]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by brickmanli:
•DiffQ was a joke at my school, I didn't go to any lectures and did better than everybody else. On the other hand, Organic (especially II) was a handful. I filled three five-subject notebooks and studied twenty hours a week. Of course, if I were at MIT then Differential Equations would be hard as hell, even more so than organic.•••••D.E is D.E no matter where it's taken. You might have alot of peeps at MIT understanding the stuff right off the back, but that doesn't change the difficulty level of the material itself. There's this new faculty member at my former school who did his PhD in math at Stanford, postdocked at MIT and taught there for 2 years before comming here. I took a graduate course he taught and the class wasn't too impressed. On the long run it helped that we all had to stay on our toes to catch any BS he threw out. This made the class very interactive. I'm sure the guy is a wiz at Differential Geometry which is his research field; but he sure as hell needed to do some intensive review of his topology. I'm sure he'd've been great if he just spent more hours prepping his lectures.

 

[strangeattractor]

yo. first of all, so much will depend on where your inclination is. i took my calc-based physics, multivar, and diffy-q's my 1st yr, and o chem my 2nd year, and i did a major very close to bioeng. i haven't ran into a math class i've found very difficult just on the basis that there's really not too much to learn -- a few rules, and then a few exceptions (unless we're talking analysis, etc). so in a sense o chem is like math in that you memorize the rules and the exceptions but you have to go further and actually analyze why and how, and will need to synthesize that which you've learned in many cases. that being said, o chem definitely does not deserve the reputation it has...i personally found biochem to be a bitch in that there is a lot of sheer memorization involved. as a general note, the more memorization that's necessary is inversely proportional to your ability to cram for the midterms and final. but honestly, i wouldn't sweat any of these classes. you'll do fine! just walk in the class like you own it and study.

 

[laviddee]

i say... why worry about it?
ya gotta take it .. so just take it and do your best.
at least at michigan.. you do have to work your butt off to do well at orgo- and the mean is a C+/B- so most of those kids, who are already gung ho pre-meds get really disappointed and that's probably why you hear what you hear about orgo before going in and all the tragic sob stories to boot. dreams crushed, futures lost, and the sea of despair... at least they think so.
so who cares how hard it is.. .you gotta take it. it's what you learn in college- life throws you some fastballs/curveballs/sliders- and different hitters like different pitches.. but you still gotta stay at the plate and swing if you want to be a doctor.

 

[moo]

I personally found DE's to be a joke compared to organic. But that's only because I like math. However, the higher level stuff, Green's functions, Applied PDE's, the theoretical PDE's can be more intense.

 

[Firebird]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by Original:
•They're both extremely easy courses. I took both those courses in my sophomore year just like you're planning to do. Don't listen to all the whinning about how hard organic chemistry is. The course is a freaking joke! Just put sufficient time aside to do the necessary memorization; and make sure you have good facility with the reaction mechanisms. I think what kills alot of premeds in organic is the huge amounts of fear that's instilled into them prior to taking the course. "ooooh aaah organic is so hard" . Do your own thing and tune-out from the pervasive whinning. You'll do just fine!. Have fun in D.E it's good stuff .•••••Please. Organic may have been a joke at your school, but that is not the case at most. In fact, my first class had approximately 70 people in it, and about 3 of them got A's. The difficulty of organic is not that fear has been instilled in people, as I was arrogant about it from the beginning and thought I was going to kick tail in it. I had some of it in high school, made a 98 percent on the first test, and was high on my horse. From then on, I made straight C's on the exams, and ended up with a 78.

So trust me--I was not at all scared of it, but I still got whipped by it.

The difficulty of the class lies within the nature of the material and the newness of the ideas. A person easily gets hung up on the terminology such as dienophile, diastereoisomers, or even a simple one like nucleophile/electrophile. Also, it requires a lot of 3-D thinking, which is difficult for some people. Moreover, there's just an enormous amount of info to know--and you can't forget any of it because it will be on later tests. In fact, our second semester final covers every concept from beginning of Organic I to the end of Organic II.

So don't let people fool you into thinking the class is a joke. It's tough. Study hard.

And by the way, the phrase is "right of the bat", not "back".

 

[Original]

Please the phrase may have been "right off the bat" at your school, but at my school they told us that it is "right of the back" <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" />

btw the babes at my school got back :wink:

 

[gas-x]

For me, Organic chem was a breeze compared to diffy Q. Treat orgo like a game, then it gets easier. For some strange reason, i thought orgo was actually fun. Not the orgo lab though.

 

[gas-x]

For me, Organic chem was a breeze compared to diffy Q. Treat orgo like a game, then it gets easier. For some strange reason, i thought orgo was actually fun. Not the orgo lab though.

 

[Firebird]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by Original:
•Please the phrase may have been "right off the bat" at your school, but at my school they told us that it is "right of the back" <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" />

btw the babes at my school got back :wink: •••••Hahaha...I came across like a real jerk with that post. Sorry--I should have not done that. My apologies.

I'm not sure what your last comment means, though...

 

[Original]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by Firebird:
• •••quote:•••Originally posted by Original:
•Please the phrase may have been "right off the bat" at your school, but at my school they told us that it is "right of the back" <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" />

btw the babes at my school got back :wink: •••••Hahaha...I came across like a real jerk with that post. Sorry--I should have not done that. My apologies.

I'm not sure what your last comment means, though...•••••I'm not sure what it means either. I say alot of random irrelevant stuff. By the way I wasn't in the least offended

 

[smid]

I find math to be much more interesting than organic chemistry. I think "hard" is relative. If you are majoring in physics (me) than math might be "easier", but if you are bio major, then maybe o-chem is more satisfying. Personally, I found it to be quite dry as it deals with only 4 freakin' elements (pretty much, plus some P and S)

Don't worry about it. Just momorize stuff and be able to "push" electrons around and you'll be fine. Have fun with it (if you can!)

 

[Flack Pinku]

Thanks everyone for voicing your opinions. Your experiences help a lot. Right now, I am just trying to think positively, but not carefreely.

I guess like one of the posters said, (in essense) "What's gotta be done, has gotta be done." Too fatalistic, but true in the end.

 

[Firebird]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by smid:
•Personally, I found it to be quite dry as it deals with only 4 freakin' elements (pretty much, plus some P and S)
•••••C, H, O, Cl, I, Br, N, F

I suppose that Carbon and Hydrogen are two of the four you were talking about. What were the other two? Cause we used the above 8 fairly frequently along with the P and S.

 

[CD]

Strangly I found differential equations to be much harder than organic. (my B.S. is Civil Engr so math and physics type science usually come much easier for me). My fear of organic drove me to study the entire summer BEFORE taking the class! By the time I actually attended classes I had learned all of the material taught during first term. That said, here's some things I found helpful in orgo. While there is some memorizing, don't try to memorize reactions, rather learn WHY a reaction takes place. Second, do problems , problems, problems, problems. I enjoyed orgo and so chose to do many problems just for the fun of it. However, doing all the problems also helped when it came time for tests because I'd seen most every way a concept could be applied. Third, if you do a problem differently than the solutions may indicate, ask a TA or prof. if your way will work. Many times there are more than one way to get to the same result. Good luck!--Cynthia

 

[styphon]

You people amaze me..I am now starting the third year of college and I kicked some Organic chemistry ass..

While I do admit, that these are the only courses I actually had to put effort in, since I started college, I actually enjoyed it..Maybe the key is to enjoy organic?

 

[lady bug]

I thougt Diff. Equations was more challenging than Organic... maybe b/c the professor I took DE w/ was known to be notoriously difficult...also I was much more motivated to study Organic than DE....I thought Organic was more intriguing(one of the reasons I changed my engineering major)....but in the end, I think your performance in any course directly reflects how much quality time you put into it.