Expired coursework

[LiteralLungs]

By the time of my application, I will be approximately 5 years out from undergrad. I was worried about the age of my coursework because some schools state that they want prerequisites to be done within the past 5 years or so. I contacted a bunch of schools, and about half said something along the lines of expecting recent coursework, within the past 5 years, within past 3, within past 7, recent proof you can handle academic rigor, etc. The other half said that coursework does not expire. I am now working both full time and part time jobs and doing a lot of volunteering, and I was going to try and tack on one upper level class next semester. I am wondering if this would even help, since it is only one class. Alternatively, I suppose I could quit the part time job and try to take two courses, although I am not sure that it is worth it. This part time job is giving me experience for my application that I cannot get otherwise.

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[DoctorFate]

I doubt taking a single class would be worth it, unless you have a reason for it beyond simply showing academic activity.

 

[LiteralLungs]

I doubt taking a single class would be worth it, unless you have a reason for it beyond simply showing academic activity.

My undergrad GPA and MCAT were fine, so I don't have a reason beyond what you've said.

Thanks for the response. I suppose this means, that for the schools that say they recommend recent coursework, I would have to pursue some kind of additional graduate degree.

 

[DoctorFate]

My undergrad GPA and MCAT were fine, so I don't have a reason beyond what you've said.

Thanks for the response. I suppose this means, that for the schools that say they recommend recent coursework, I would have to pursue some kind of additional graduate degree.

Or SMP. Or honestly, just register for 1 year of classes and take 8 relevant courses during that year.

 

[LiteralLungs]

The issue isnt that your courses are old. Rather it has been 5 years since you have had full time academic schedule and therefore you do not have evidence of your current ability to handle the educational rigor of medical school. Since student skillset, such as studying, exam taking etc can degrade like any other skillset, this can put you at a competitive disadvantage as it can raise the question in an adcom’s collective mind: can the applicant currently handle medical school?

What do you usually advise students in this situation? Should I selectively apply to schools that don't indicate an expiration date? I am working full time and my MCAT expires after next cycle. It sounds like I shouldn't apply because schools might reject me since my coursework is old. Is it worth the time and money to take another year or two off, invest in a bunch of non degree seeking coursework, due to the chance that some schools may or may not disqualify me because of old coursework? I am unsure about this.

 

[KnightDoc]

What do you usually advise students in this situation? Should I selectively apply to schools that don't indicate an expiration date? I am working full time and my MCAT expires after next cycle. It sounds like I shouldn't apply because schools might reject me since my coursework is old. Is it worth the time and money to take another year or two off, invest in a bunch of non degree seeking coursework, due to the chance that some schools may or may not disqualify me because of old coursework? I am unsure about this.

I'm just an applicant, but if I were you I'd just take the shot, and let any school that doesn't like 5-year old coursework reject you. After all, 5 years isn't exactly 10+ years.

An unexpired MCAT should tell them all they need to know about your ability to handle med school, in addition to your 5 year old academic record. I honestly wouldn't waste the time, money and effort to listen to anyone who advised doing anything other than just applying under these circumstances, simply because doing so will make you a better applicant, which, of course, it will, but at what appears to be an unreasonable cost for a small potential benefit.

 

[KnightDoc]

I would disagree.

1) The MCAT is a one time exam that, while designed to be a summary of the basic pre-requisite sciences mastered in school, the way is that applicants can prep in the short term leave it only Standard comparison of short term mastery of Material.

2) The MCAT doesn’t replace the evidence of long-term, in-depth, college work, Which Indicates the abilities and skill set needed from being successful in the intense educational of medical school. Expired coursework Is it possible indicator of the staleness of that skill set

3) Most medical schools that have a policy on expired coursework also say they want to see evidence of academic involvement of some kind. This could mean working in a research lab or even working in a clinical position.

4) I am not sure this “Come hell or Highwater” approach recommend is the best for most applicants. I would deem it a tad reckless

As you probably know, I greatly respect your opinion, and I don't think you are wrong. The gold standard is an applicant with many years of rich, rewarding, meaningful ECs, ground breaking research evidenced by several prestigious first author publications, and recent, high level academic achievement, including a 520+ MCAT. Most people cannot meet this standard. While the odds of admission undoubtedly suck, the fact remains that 35-40% of applicants still manage to muddle through and get themselves accepted somewhere.

To me, "reckless" is in the eye of the beholder. In OP's specific case, with a decent UG record that will be 5 years old at the time of his application, not 15, PLUS a MCAT that will expire after the next cycle, I don't think it is reckless to advise that quitting a job to take a few otherwise meaningless classes to demonstrate a current ability to handle medical school would be nothing more than an unnecessary, empty gesture that would do nothing more than potentially appease a few schools.

Yes, skill sets wane over time. This is one reason why traditional applicants like to go straight through. Schools have to balance this against the experience and maturity achieved through the gap years. Half the schools OP asked did not place any timer at all on his coursework. The others imposed various expirations, 3, 5, 7 years, etc.

All I said is that if OP does not organically need to pursue additional coursework for GPA repair, or to pick up missing prereqs. I would not give up a job and an income, or incur the time and expense of additional unnecessary schooling, plus maybe have to retake an expired MCAT, in order to maybe marginally increase my chances at a handful of schools. I'd forge ahead with what I had, and either take my chances at the schools that prefer more recent coursework, or just cross them off my list and replace them with others. Nowadays, there are plenty of schools to choose from!

 

[DoctorFate]

As you probably know, I greatly respect your opinion, and I don't think you are wrong. The gold standard is an applicant with many years of rich, rewarding, meaningful ECs, ground breaking research evidenced by several prestigious first author publications, and recent, high level academic achievement, including a 520+ MCAT. Most people cannot meet this standard. While the odds of admission undoubtedly suck, the fact remains that 35-40% of applicants still manage to muddle through and get themselves accepted somewhere.

To me, "reckless" is in the eye of the beholder. In OP's specific case, with a decent UG record that will be 5 years at application, not 15, PLUS a MCAT that will expire after the next cycle, I don't think it is reckless to advise that quitting a job to take a few otherwise meaningless classes to demonstrate a current ability to handle medical school would be nothing more than an unnecessary, empty gesture that would do nothing more than appease a few schools.

Yes, skill sets wane over time. This is one reason why traditional applicants like to go straight through, and schools have to balance this against the experience and maturity achieved through the gap years. Half the schools OP asked did not place any timer at all on his coursework. The others imposed various expirations, 3, 5, 7 years, etc.

All I said is that if OP does not organically need to pursue additional coursework for GPA repair, or to pick up missing prereqs. I would not give up a job and an income, or incur the time and expense of additional unnecessary schooling, plus maybe have to retake an expired MCAT, in order to maybe marginally increase my chances at a handful of schools. I'd forge ahead with what I had, and either take my chances at the schools the prefer more recent coursework, or just cross them off my list and replace them with others. Nowadays, there are plenty of schools to choose from!

The other thing I have noticed, and I have seen attested to by others several times on this site is that many schools with coursework expiration deadlines don't actually enforce them. I can't remember which thread it was on, but just a few days ago someone posted that prereqs he took freshman year was technically expired by the time he applied for med school, and he wasn't aware of that at the time. But he was accepted and admitted.

 

[KnightDoc]

The other thing I have noticed, and I have seen attested to by others several times on this site is that many schools with coursework expiration deadlines don't actually enforce them. I can't remember which thread it was on, but just a few days ago someone posted that prereqs he took freshman year was technically expired by the time he applied for med school, and he wasn't aware of that at the time. But he was accepted and admitted.

THIS^^^^. These dates are "nice to haves" for most of the schools. Depending on the rest of the application, they are either enforced or not.

Again, if OP needed to take classes anyway, that would be one thing. But the coursework is not over 10 years old, the grades are decent, and the MCAT is about to expire. I just wouldn't delay, and then have to retake the MCAT, because a few schools might not like 5 year old coursework, and might use it against me.

Yes, the situation is less than ideal. So is having to give up income and spend money to chase a few credits that probably won't tip the scales, just because they might. JMHO.

 

[LiteralLungs]

Or SMP. Or honestly, just register for 1 year of classes and take 8 relevant courses during that year.

The issue isnt that your courses are old. Rather it has been 5 years since you have had full time academic schedule and therefore you do not have evidence of your current ability to handle the educational rigor of medical school. Since student skillset, such as studying, exam taking etc can degrade like any other skillset, this can put you at a competitive disadvantage as it can raise the question in an adcom’s collective mind: can the applicant currently handle medical school?

THIS^^^^. These dates are "nice to haves" for most of the schools. Depending on the rest of the application, they are either enforced or not.

Again, if OP needed to take classes anyway, that would be one thing. But the coursework is not over 10 years old, the grades are decent, and the MCAT is about to expire. I just wouldn't delay, and then have to retake the MCAT, because a few schools might not like 5 year old coursework, and might use it against me.

Yes, the situation is less than ideal. So is having to give up income and spend money to chase a few credits that probably won't tip the scales, just because they might. JMHO.

Thank you all for your helpful advice.

 

[MyOdyssey]

Thank you all for your helpful advice.

I’ll be facing a similar situation.

Do you mind, OP, sharing your research on the schools with 3 and 5 year course expiration dates?

Thanks!

 

[LiteralLungs]

I’ll be facing a similar situation.

Do you mind, OP, sharing your research on the schools with 3 and 5 year course expiration dates?

Thanks!

Sure:
Jefferson states on website that coursework must be within 5 years
Georgetown states it wants coursework within 5 years
Tufts expects recent coursework or involvement
Drexel says it will rarely consider work more than 7+ years
Albany advises taking coursework if away for a long period of time
Wayne State strongly recommends coursework if not within 5 years
Temple wants it within 3 years
GW recommends recent coursework
Creighton recommends recent coursework within 3 years
Rush recommends taking at least one course if it has been 5 years
Wisconsin says courses don't expire, but wants proof you can handle academic rigor
SLU says courses don't expire, but prefers coursework within 2 years

Let me know if anything sounds wrong, or anyone finds out information about other programs

 

[LiteralLungs]

The other thing I have noticed, and I have seen attested to by others several times on this site is that many schools with coursework expiration deadlines don't actually enforce them. I can't remember which thread it was on, but just a few days ago someone posted that prereqs he took freshman year was technically expired by the time he applied for med school, and he wasn't aware of that at the time. But he was accepted and admitted.

I wonder if the poster you are talking about was still in school or out for multiple gap years. They could have been stating that just their pre reqs were that old and that they had more recent upper levels. A lot of schools that have these policies seem to accept upper level science courses in lieu of recent pre reqs.

 

[MyOdyssey]

Sure:
Jefferson states on website that coursework must be within 5 years
Georgetown states it wants coursework within 5 years
Tufts expects recent coursework or involvement
Drexel says it will rarely consider work more than 7+ years
Albany advises taking coursework if away for a long period of time
Wayne State strongly recommends coursework if not within 5 years
Temple wants it within 3 years
GW recommends recent coursework
Creighton recommends recent coursework within 3 years
Rush recommends taking at least one course if it has been 5 years
Wisconsin says courses don't expire, but wants proof you can handle academic rigor
SLU says courses don't expire, but prefers coursework within 2 years

Let me know if anything sounds wrong, or anyone finds out information about other programs

Excellent! This thread includes a few additional schools that @gonnif and I found:

Five year expiration date on premed courses

Hello all I received my BS in May 2019 and plan to start a 2 year science research fellowship in Feb 2022. That would mean I couldn't begin medical school until June/July/August 2024, which is just outside five years from my graduation date. I majored in a science, received an overall GPA of...

forums.studentdoctor.net

 

[MyOdyssey]

Presumably the schools mean that one’s MOST RECENT coursework must be within X years of applying - not that all coursework must be within X years of applying.

 

[DigNewton]

Presumably the schools mean that one’s MOST RECENT coursework must be within X years of applying - not that all coursework must be within X years of applying.

tl;dr – skip to "My advice..." at the end

This varies greatly across schools, and there are definitely schools that have a strict, enforced requirement that ALL coursework must have been taken within X years of applying.

OP – it sounds like you've been contacting admissions offices to get details for each school, which is the only way to really know what they expect. Websites can be outdated and/or unclear. Same goes for school-specific advice on here.

I'm a nontrad, and my pre-reqs ranged from 8-17ish years old. I have a relevant MS that was 5 years old when I applied. Here's what I found, when I applied last cycle:

• a small number of schools said pre-reqs never expire, or that they don't have any specific pre-req requirements
• an equally small number of schools said they had a hard expiration on pre-reqs (3 years, 5 years, 10 years were most common), and that I'd have to retake ALL of the pre-reqs
• a decent number of schools considered my MS just recent enough
• most schools had a "strongly recommended" pre-req age, but said a couple recent upper-level courses to "refresh" my transcripts would be sufficient
• not a single school seemed to care what my MCAT score was, in terms of whether my coursework was too old

^^that last one is important. Don't assume a great MCAT will solve coursework expiration issues. I had a 99th-percentile MCAT score, and schools that had strict recency requirements for pre-reqs didn't budge on their requirements.

----------------------------

My advice, for whatever it's worth:

• an SMP or other graduate degree is an incredibly expensive and/or time-consuming way to solve this problem, if you don't need it for anything other than refreshing your transcripts
• take 2 upper-level courses that you haven't previously taken, continuing as many of your ECs as you can while still getting A's in those courses. That will satisfy a lot of schools (assuming the rest of your application is solid). Some good choices for the courses would be 2 of immunology, embryology, histology, UL anatomy or physiology
• be sure you know which schools are going to throw your secondary in the trash and your money in their bank accounts, unless you're looking to waste your time and make donations

 

[MyOdyssey]

tl;dr – skip to "My advice..." at the end

This varies greatly across schools, and there are definitely schools that have a strict, enforced requirement that ALL coursework must have been taken within X years of applying.

OP – it sounds like you've been contacting admissions offices to get details for each school, which is the only way to really know what they expect. Websites can be outdated and/or unclear. Same goes for school-specific advice on here.

I'm a nontrad, and my pre-reqs ranged from 8-17ish years old. I have a relevant MS that was 5 years old when I applied. Here's what I found, when I applied last cycle:

• a small number of schools said pre-reqs never expire, or that they don't have any specific pre-req requirements
• an equally small number of schools said they had a hard expiration on pre-reqs (3 years, 5 years, 10 years were most common), and that I'd have to retake ALL of the pre-reqs
• a decent number of schools considered my MS just recent enough
• most schools had a "strongly recommended" pre-req age, but said a couple recent upper-level courses to "refresh" my transcripts would be sufficient
• not a single school seemed to care what my MCAT score was, in terms of whether my coursework was too old

^^that last one is important. Don't assume a great MCAT will solve coursework expiration issues. I had a 99th-percentile MCAT score, and schools that had strict recency requirements for pre-reqs didn't budge on their requirements.

----------------------------

My advice, for whatever it's worth:

• an SMP or other graduate degree is an incredibly expensive and/or time-consuming way to solve this problem, if you don't need it for anything other than refreshing your transcripts
• take 2 upper-level courses that you haven't previously taken, continuing as many of your ECs as you can while still getting A's in those courses. That will satisfy a lot of schools (assuming the rest of your application is solid). Some good choices for the courses would be 2 of immunology, embryology, histology, UL anatomy or physiology
• be sure you know which schools are going to throw your secondary in the trash and your money in their bank accounts, unless you're looking to waste your time and make donations

How did you “solve” the coursework expiration problem?

 

[DoctorFate]

tl;dr – skip to "My advice..." at the end

This varies greatly across schools, and there are definitely schools that have a strict, enforced requirement that ALL coursework must have been taken within X years of applying.

OP – it sounds like you've been contacting admissions offices to get details for each school, which is the only way to really know what they expect. Websites can be outdated and/or unclear. Same goes for school-specific advice on here.

I'm a nontrad, and my pre-reqs ranged from 8-17ish years old. I have a relevant MS that was 5 years old when I applied. Here's what I found, when I applied last cycle:

• a small number of schools said pre-reqs never expire, or that they don't have any specific pre-req requirements
• an equally small number of schools said they had a hard expiration on pre-reqs (3 years, 5 years, 10 years were most common), and that I'd have to retake ALL of the pre-reqs
• a decent number of schools considered my MS just recent enough
• most schools had a "strongly recommended" pre-req age, but said a couple recent upper-level courses to "refresh" my transcripts would be sufficient
• not a single school seemed to care what my MCAT score was, in terms of whether my coursework was too old

^^that last one is important. Don't assume a great MCAT will solve coursework expiration issues. I had a 99th-percentile MCAT score, and schools that had strict recency requirements for pre-reqs didn't budge on their requirements.

----------------------------

My advice, for whatever it's worth:

• an SMP or other graduate degree is an incredibly expensive and/or time-consuming way to solve this problem, if you don't need it for anything other than refreshing your transcripts
• take 2 upper-level courses that you haven't previously taken, continuing as many of your ECs as you can while still getting A's in those courses. That will satisfy a lot of schools (assuming the rest of your application is solid). Some good choices for the courses would be 2 of immunology, embryology, histology, UL anatomy or physiology
• be sure you know which schools are going to throw your secondary in the trash and your money in their bank accounts, unless you're looking to waste your time and make donations

I think the MCAT score effect is more subjective than objective. If you have coursework that's 5 years old (barely permissible in some schools), and a 1 year old MCAT in the 99th percentile, when an adcom is reviewing your application that may quell their doubts about your academic capacity at this moment. That's what I believe adcoms on this site said in other posts, but I may be wrong.

 

[LiteralLungs]

tl;dr – skip to "My advice..." at the end

This varies greatly across schools, and there are definitely schools that have a strict, enforced requirement that ALL coursework must have been taken within X years of applying.

OP – it sounds like you've been contacting admissions offices to get details for each school, which is the only way to really know what they expect. Websites can be outdated and/or unclear. Same goes for school-specific advice on here.

I'm a nontrad, and my pre-reqs ranged from 8-17ish years old. I have a relevant MS that was 5 years old when I applied. Here's what I found, when I applied last cycle:

• a small number of schools said pre-reqs never expire, or that they don't have any specific pre-req requirements
• an equally small number of schools said they had a hard expiration on pre-reqs (3 years, 5 years, 10 years were most common), and that I'd have to retake ALL of the pre-reqs
• a decent number of schools considered my MS just recent enough
• most schools had a "strongly recommended" pre-req age, but said a couple recent upper-level courses to "refresh" my transcripts would be sufficient
• not a single school seemed to care what my MCAT score was, in terms of whether my coursework was too old

^^that last one is important. Don't assume a great MCAT will solve coursework expiration issues. I had a 99th-percentile MCAT score, and schools that had strict recency requirements for pre-reqs didn't budge on their requirements.

----------------------------

My advice, for whatever it's worth:

• an SMP or other graduate degree is an incredibly expensive and/or time-consuming way to solve this problem, if you don't need it for anything other than refreshing your transcripts
• take 2 upper-level courses that you haven't previously taken, continuing as many of your ECs as you can while still getting A's in those courses. That will satisfy a lot of schools (assuming the rest of your application is solid). Some good choices for the courses would be 2 of immunology, embryology, histology, UL anatomy or physiology
• be sure you know which schools are going to throw your secondary in the trash and your money in their bank accounts, unless you're looking to waste your time and make donations

This is worrisome. Did you have any research, or know what the schools said about research as a way of staying academically involved? I am worrying now that I need to take courses, but I would need to quit a new job I just started that was going to be beneficial for my application.

 

[DigNewton]

How did you “solve” the coursework expiration problem?

I took two night courses – immunology and anatomy – and applied to schools that told me either (a) prereqs don't expire, or (b) a few UL courses would be sufficient to address the adcom concerns.

This is worrisome. Did you have any research, or know what the schools said about research as a way of staying academically involved? I am worrying now that I need to take courses, but I would need to quit a new job I just started that was going to be beneficial for my application.

Worrisome how? Do you have extremely old prerequisites? Contact admissions offices and see what they recommend that you do. I was able to apply pretty broadly after taking a couple UL night courses.

I had a ton of research from one of the top schools in my field and several publications. For the schools that had strict requirements for recency of prerequisite courses, the research didn't waive the "expired" prereqs. For the schools that "strongly recommended" recent preqreq coursework, I'm guessing the research didn't hurt, but I don't know whether it helped, either.

 

[LiteralLungs]

I took two night courses – immunology and anatomy – and applied to schools that told me either (a) prereqs don't expire, or (b) a few UL courses would be sufficient to address the adcom concerns.


Worrisome how? Do you have extremely old prerequisites? Contact admissions offices and see what they recommend that you do. I was able to apply pretty broadly after taking a couple UL night courses.

I had a ton of research from one of the top schools in my field and several publications. For the schools that had strict requirements for recency of prerequisite courses, the research didn't waive the "expired" prereqs. For the schools that "strongly recommended" recent preqreq coursework, I'm guessing the research didn't hurt, but I don't know whether it helped, either.

Could you possibly list the schools you found that required more recent coursework? My pre reqs are at the most about 8 years old, but I had taken upper levels in undergrad later on. At the time of application, I will have graduated 5 years ago. When I did contact admissions offices, I got a variety of advice. About half said something along the lines of expecting recent coursework, within the past 5 years, within past 3, within past 7, recent proof you can handle academic rigor, etc. The other half said that coursework does not expire. If I don't apply to the half that recommend more recent pre reqs, that cuts my school list shorter than I would like. It's just that I am worried about making a decision to take 1-2 courses in the spring. I just started a new opportunity that would benefit my application, but I think I would have to cut it if I decided to take courses. Courses are expensive, and there is the uncertainty of whether they will even help.

 

[LiteralLungs]

tl;dr – skip to "My advice..." at the end

This varies greatly across schools, and there are definitely schools that have a strict, enforced requirement that ALL coursework must have been taken within X years of applying.

OP – it sounds like you've been contacting admissions offices to get details for each school, which is the only way to really know what they expect. Websites can be outdated and/or unclear. Same goes for school-specific advice on here.

I'm a nontrad, and my pre-reqs ranged from 8-17ish years old. I have a relevant MS that was 5 years old when I applied. Here's what I found, when I applied last cycle:

• a small number of schools said pre-reqs never expire, or that they don't have any specific pre-req requirements
• an equally small number of schools said they had a hard expiration on pre-reqs (3 years, 5 years, 10 years were most common), and that I'd have to retake ALL of the pre-reqs
• a decent number of schools considered my MS just recent enough
• most schools had a "strongly recommended" pre-req age, but said a couple recent upper-level courses to "refresh" my transcripts would be sufficient
• not a single school seemed to care what my MCAT score was, in terms of whether my coursework was too old

^^that last one is important. Don't assume a great MCAT will solve coursework expiration issues. I had a 99th-percentile MCAT score, and schools that had strict recency requirements for pre-reqs didn't budge on their requirements.

----------------------------

My advice, for whatever it's worth:

• an SMP or other graduate degree is an incredibly expensive and/or time-consuming way to solve this problem, if you don't need it for anything other than refreshing your transcripts
• take 2 upper-level courses that you haven't previously taken, continuing as many of your ECs as you can while still getting A's in those courses. That will satisfy a lot of schools (assuming the rest of your application is solid). Some good choices for the courses would be 2 of immunology, embryology, histology, UL anatomy or physiology
• be sure you know which schools are going to throw your secondary in the trash and your money in their bank accounts, unless you're looking to waste your time and make donations

Also, I am surprised to hear that schools told you it would be necessary to retake ALL of the pre reqs. It's like your degree expired.

 

[DigNewton]

Could you possibly list the schools you found that required more recent coursework? My pre reqs are at the most about 8 years old, but I had taken upper levels in undergrad later on. At the time of application, I will have graduated 5 years ago. When I did contact admissions offices, I got a variety of advice. About half said something along the lines of expecting recent coursework, within the past 5 years, within past 3, within past 7, recent proof you can handle academic rigor, etc. The other half said that coursework does not expire. If I don't apply to the half that recommend more recent pre reqs, that cuts my school list shorter than I would like. It's just that I am worried about making a decision to take 1-2 courses in the spring. I just started a new opportunity that would benefit my application, but I think I would have to cut it if I decided to take courses. Courses are expensive, and there is the uncertainty of whether they will even help.

Sorry, I didn't keep the list and don't recall which schools off the top of my head. I would recommend creating your "ideal" school list, then calling each one that you're concerned about. Ask them very specifically about what you need to do to satisfy requirements – you can ask if taking 2 courses would help, and they will (usually) give you a clear answer. If, after doing that, your list is smaller than you'd like... start going through MSAR to find other target schools, call them, and repeat until your list is long enough. Or take your chances at schools where it's unclear whether it will be a problem or not.

As to whether you should take a couple courses vs. stick with your new EC/employment opportunity, I'm not an adcom and don't feel qualified to advise you on that. I'm just telling you what I did about old prereqs.