Los Angeles Pediatrics Programs

[eyedr]

I am posting this thread for my gf/future fiance. I have already matched into an LA residency and my significant other will follow in the March 2007 match (i.e. she will apply next season). We were wondering how competitive Pediatrics Programs are in that area. How difficult is it to be selected for an interview. What are average board scores to match? How helpful would multiple away rotations be at some of the 7 Peds programs that are in the LA area. Los Angeles is her only option obviously and its kind of a scary thought when the consensus is that LA is the toughest city to match into (obviously, which residency you pick can matter a lot)

Basically she is a U.S. allopathic applicant from a northeast school, no publications, but an incredible ability to see eye to eye with children in a more literal sense

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[mr.annoying]

Hey eyedr,

I'm currently applying for peds in Southern California. I can't give you specifics with regards to boards scores required for interviewing & matching, etc. because I don't know that information and I'm still applying, but I can tell you what I understand is the level of competitiveness.

The top 3 programs in Southern California are probably Childrens Hospital of LA, UCLA and Harbor-UCLA (some may argue this, but that's just what I've been told by advisors), and therefore are probably the more competitive LA programs.

Drew, White memorial, Kaiser etc. I wouldn't touch with a stick personally because I'm looking for a good academic institution, but I'm not sure what your girlfriend's preference is. And of course you know the problems with Drew.

USC doesn't have a great reputation with many of my peds advisors for various reasons, and I think they had to scramble a good amount of their positions last year (not sure about other years).

I wish I could tell you more, but I'm still early in the application process as well. Hope this info helps a LITTLE.

From what I understand 200-210 is a good enough score for most peds programs, but it doesn't necessarily stand out. I guess it depends on the rest of her app (clinical grades especially).

 

[eyedr]

Thanks for the reply...much appreciated and quite helpful.

But are there any other students or residents out there with more insight?

 

[Lost Everwood]

Los Angeles is her only option obviously and its kind of a scary thought when the consensus is that LA is the toughest city to match into (obviously, which residency you pick can matter a lot)

Basically she is a U.S. allopathic applicant from a northeast school, board scores in the 200-210 range, no publications, but an incredible ability to see eye to eye with children in a more literal sense

Hey eyedr,

I'm in a sort of similar situation, interested in peds since Day 1 of med school, from the Midwest but now looking more out west. I've got some time to decide, I'm taking time off for public health and research so I'll probably be trying to match for 2008, but I have been listening to my classmates accumulated wisdom on this.

The Los Angeles area does get plenty of good people from all over for many programs, but it's probably not the toughest city to match into. As far as I know, the Boston-area hospitals, New York and the California Bay Area are the most competitive by far-- top programs in a nice cluster with each other, pleasant and vibrant cities, good cases to train on, nice public transportation, relatively low crime, world-renowned museums and restaurants, nice college-age culture, plus decent-enough weather (spring and summer in New York and NE are unbeatable). And SF is in a class by itself as far as cities of the world go.

Also while it may not get as much attention on the coasts, Chicago is a tremendous draw especially for us Midwesterners and many Right and Left Coasters too-- a very fun city w/ some of the best, if underrated residency training programs anywhere, plus a very fun city with a great nightlife, cafes, music and lots to do post-call. The Field Museum is the best museum you've probably never heard of! Not to mention Atlanta, with Emory for example, Philly (lots of excellent programs especially for Peds), Michigan, Baltimore and the metro area around Washington D.C., St. Louis, Durham and Chapel Hill, and the Texas schools to name just a few of the popular draws. Lots of cities are big draws for people for various reasons, I wouldn't worry too much about a big rush for one or the other-- I'm looking mainly out west only because my boyfriend is getting posted out there for his job and I don't want him to be so lonely.

LA's a big draw too, but like the other cities (except for Chicago, which is flawless in general ) it has its pros and cons, and I've heard strong opinions of both even from natives who come from the area! There's great training out there in nice hospitals, great weather, nice atmosphere, good beaches for an off-weekend and a fun culture in general. On the other hand there's also crowding and truly awful traffic in LA with almost nonexistent public transportation (which can be a miserable adjustment if you're from a place like Chicago or New York!), at least some rep for malignant programs (at least for medicine though maybe that's since changed), smog, high crime and a steep cost of living though that's also true for many of the other popular cities.

My engineer boyfriend also keeps making me nervous with all this talk about that Richter 9 earthquake or whatever people are always fretting about in LA. I used to laugh and ignore him but after Katrina, I'm no longer so dismissive of natural disasters taking out an entire city! (Seriously-- does anyone in the know, w/ maybe a geology background know something more about the "Big One" that's supposed to erupt along the California coast? I feel almost embarrassed even worrying about this sort of thing, but big earthquakes and exhausted post-call residents are a bad combination!)

Also remember for peds, the best programs are scattered in many places. The Big 3 I guess are the Boston hospitals, Philly and Hopkins, but also Cincinnati, Seattle, Denver, D.C., Rainbow plus one of the Texas (?) programs which are world-famous. So for peds at least, there's a decent geographical spread.

 

[mr.annoying]

That was a very thoughtful post there Lost Everwood. Looks like you spent a good amount of time on it, and I bet it would be beneficial for many prospective applicants.

However, the original poster states that he is currently doing his residency in LA and his gf/fiance's "only option" is to match in LA. So I don't think she'll be needing all the other info about the rest of the country.

Perhaps you can copy/edit & paste your post in a separate thread for others to benefit as well

 

[eyedr]

That was a very thoughtful post there Lost Everwood. Looks like you spent a good amount of time on it, and I bet it would be beneficial for many prospective applicants.

However, the original poster states that he is currently doing his residency in LA and his gf/fiance's "only option" is to match in LA. So I don't think she'll be needing all the other info about the rest of the country.

Perhaps you can copy/edit & paste your post in a separate thread for others to benefit as well

Haha! you're right mr.annoying it was quite an extensive and thoughful post, but a little off the mark. I think her point was more to refute my notion that LA is among the toughest cities to match into. If you have any other info regarding specifics about matching into LA, it would be quite helpful. Thanks!

 

[dara678]

If she can, she should really try to get a Sub-I or away rotation at CHLA. It's a fantastic hospital with great amenities and staff for the children. The docs I've met there are some of the brightest and most empathetic people I have ever met, and they also love working with children. The facilities are great, and some of their programs are among the top on this coast. I think it would help her vastly if she could do some sort of rotation there first. Plus it is in the middle of the city (hollywood area) so close to pretty much everywhere.

By the way, to the poster who was talking about USC -- I think you mean women's and children's (and I can't argue with you about that). So you know, CHLA is part of USC -- we do our peds rotations there.

 

[mr.annoying]

If she can, she should really try to get a Sub-I or away rotation at CHLA. It's a fantastic hospital with great amenities and staff for the children. The docs I've met there are some of the brightest and most empathetic people I have ever met, and they also love working with children. The facilities are great, and some of their programs are among the top on this coast. I think it would help her vastly if she could do some sort of rotation there first. Plus it is in the middle of the city (hollywood area) so close to pretty much everywhere.

By the way, to the poster who was talking about USC -- I think you mean women's and children's (and I can't argue with you about that). So you know, CHLA is part of USC -- we do our peds rotations there.

About USC... yea I meant the county program.

 

[chicubs1116]

I am a current intern in peds and I did a rotation at CHLA. I will agree that the variety of things you see there would be phenomanal (sp?) I decided not to rank it highly because it seemed a little to high stress for me and not my cup of tea, but if you guys are coming from the NE you might be use to that, me personally I am a midwestern at heart. Anyway other programs that you might want to consider are UC-Irvine and Children's hospital of orange county or CHOC which is more of a community hospital setting. The only problem there is where is your residency and do you care about the commute because that can be no fun. Another program to think about is Loma Linda, some people don't like the whole 7th day Adventist thing but if you really need for here to be near the LA area that is an option.

 

[mr.annoying]

I am a current intern in peds and I did a rotation at CHLA. I will agree that the variety of things you see there would be phenomanal (sp?) I decided not to rank it highly because it seemed a little to high stress for me and not my cup of tea, but if you guys are coming from the NE you might be use to that, me personally I am a midwestern at heart. Anyway other programs that you might want to consider are UC-Irvine and Children's hospital of orange county or CHOC which is more of a community hospital setting. The only problem there is where is your residency and do you care about the commute because that can be no fun. Another program to think about is Loma Linda, some people don't like the whole 7th day Adventist thing but if you really need for here to be near the LA area that is an option.

What residency program are you at, chicubs?

 

[Lara]

Anyway other programs that you might want to consider are UC-Irvine and Children's hospital of orange county or CHOC which is more of a community hospital setting. The only problem there is where is your residency and do you care about the commute because that can be no fun.

Is a long commute absolutely required for UCI and CHOC? I applied (and got a UCI invite, yay) hoping they were in areas with decent housing nearby. Or were you referring to those wanting to live in LA proper?

btw, I also appreciated Lost Everwood's thoughtful post. And I can also see eye-to-eye with children very literally!

 

[chicubs1116]

Yes there is decent housing near by, actually beatuiful housing near by if you can afford it around UCI, but I meant the commute from the LA area would not be fun.

I am a resident at the University of Arizona program.

 

[medfred]

I interviewed at several LA programs (and couple matched into one). CHLA has the rep of being very tertiary and it certainly is from my brief visit. UCLA is also incredibly tertiary, but the merger with Cedars makes it more balanced. We spend ~3 months a year at Cedars or another community hospital, which really helps with gen peds. I didn't even consider this when I was ranking, but I'm so glad to have this balance now.

I also interviewed at CHOC, which I think would be a great place to be, but it isn't affiliated with an academic center and is quite a commute from la proper. USC was ok, but they are definitely on the weaker side and I didn't like the program director too much.

Not sure what to say about competitiveness of the various programs- there are a ton of programs here, which helps with odds.

Good luck!

 

[windycitygirl]

hmm...thought i'd throw my two cents in. i'm at usc/la county in peds...granted, it doesn't have the same rep as chla or ucla does. but take this into account before you dismiss it--

1) they are very, very, very protective of us (their residents). i'd wager a bet that it's better than most programs i interviewed at....east, west and everything in between. i was extremely impressed by that when i got here. more than willing to accomodate resident scheduling re: family obligations, trips, etc.
2) you get a lot of random stuff admitted there--lots of immigrant health stuff (i.e. a lot of times these kids come with stuff that they've contracted in other countries and the first diagnosis is here), a good amount of bread-and-butter stuff and plenty of random diagnoses. your pathology exposure is very good here.
3) it gets a bad reputation for being a county program...i really like that our stuff is located in a separate building and we have our own services....ancillary staff is excellent there, and things get done.
4) re: the not-filled issue...i have to be honest, i really don't know much about it--it's not discussed within the program. my best bet would be that they misjudged their list last year...
5) we are affiliated with CHLA, so we go there for some stuff, and they come to our hospital for some stuff. it's definitely a nice exchange.

now, you're not going to see insane quaternary care stuff--we do refer that out to CHLA. this is very much a tertiary care hospital. my advisors in med school told me to aim to get an excellent primary care background with some exposure to tertiary care--and i'm very pleased in that i am getting excellent primary care and tertiary care background here.

bottom line--i think it's a good program to look at if you're at all interested in LA. you most likely will be very pleasantly surprised. don't let the scramble status and the county name scare you....i think it was fluke.

i also have lots of info on chicago programs (born and raised there) so if people want info on those i can give that too...but this is a LA thread, so....

 

[eyedr]

hmm...thought i'd throw my two cents in. i'm at usc/la county in peds...granted, it doesn't have the same rep as chla or ucla does. but take this into account before you dismiss it--

1) they are very, very, very protective of us (their residents). i'd wager a bet that it's better than most programs i interviewed at....east, west and everything in between. i was extremely impressed by that when i got here. more than willing to accomodate resident scheduling re: family obligations, trips, etc.
2) you get a lot of random stuff admitted there--lots of immigrant health stuff (i.e. a lot of times these kids come with stuff that they've contracted in other countries and the first diagnosis is here), a good amount of bread-and-butter stuff and plenty of random diagnoses. your pathology exposure is very good here.
3) it gets a bad reputation for being a county program...i really like that our stuff is located in a separate building and we have our own services....ancillary staff is excellent there, and things get done.
4) re: the not-filled issue...i have to be honest, i really don't know much about it--it's not discussed within the program. my best bet would be that they misjudged their list last year...
5) we are affiliated with CHLA, so we go there for some stuff, and they come to our hospital for some stuff. it's definitely a nice exchange.

now, you're not going to see insane quaternary care stuff--we do refer that out to CHLA. this is very much a tertiary care hospital. my advisors in med school told me to aim to get an excellent primary care background with some exposure to tertiary care--and i'm very pleased in that i am getting excellent primary care and tertiary care background here.

bottom line--i think it's a good program to look at if you're at all interested in LA. you most likely will be very pleasantly surprised. don't let the scramble status and the county name scare you....i think it was fluke.

i also have lots of info on chicago programs (born and raised there) so if people want info on those i can give that too...but this is a LA thread, so....

Thanks so much everyone for your help and advice. It has been extremely helpful. If anyone can offer some more specifics about boards scores, grades, competition it would be appreciated.

 

[calichi]

I am originally from SoCal, now in the midwest and did an away elective at CHLA earlier this year.

Pros-Phenomenal hospital, very well run with a EMR, and a new hospital coming up. Very interesting patient population, interesting pathology.

Cons-Like another above poster, I found CHLA very high stress and too intense for my taste. The residents seemed to be worked very hard. The faculty didn't seem as approachable as on my other away electives. I wouldn't recommend this program for those who want to do general pediatrics, because I don't think you'll see as much bread and butter as you could in other programs.

 

[dara678]

hey eyedr, if your significant other got an interview or is applying to programs in irvine or orange county, it might not be too bad of a situation if she got in. i know someone who works at CHLA and whose significant other works at CHOC, and they compromise by living in the middle (an hour commute for each)

hey it's better than me and my bf ... he lives in san diego and i live in LA ... we thought about moving to orange county so we could live together but it just wouldn't work that way

 

[shinkei]

Great input so far on CHLA and USC. Anyone else with more info/comparisons on UCLA, UCI, and CHOC? Would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!

 

[Bajillionaire]

Great input so far on CHLA and USC. Anyone else with more info/comparisons on UCLA, UCI, and CHOC? Would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!

From interviewing, my opinions of UCI and CHOC are that the former benefits a little from being academically affiliated but suffers from not having quite as nice a hospital and is less technologically advanced. I also felt that the residents at UCI were by and large less busy than those at CHOC. Of all the programs I interviewed at I felt like CHOC residents seemed the most worked (even moreso than CHLA, but I'm prolly wrong). But I also sensed a stronger esprit de corps at CHOC than many places and I think part of that stems from having one major site and probably the bonds that have formed from working really hard together. Conversely, I detected just a hint of dissatisfaction (may have just made up a word) from the UCI residents. One great benefit of UC affiliation is the benefits package, the university pays the premiums for health/vision/dental for you AND your dependents (for some reason Harbor UCLA does not cover for dependents though ). And that can sometimes make up for the increased cost of living in the area (at least that's what I'm trying to convince myself).

I'd love to hear more opinions on UCLA if anyone can offer them. Particularly comparisons with CHLA and UCSD. Thanks a bunch!

 

[vyc]

I did an away rotation at UCLA and while the attendings and fellows were great, I was disappointed with the residents and the educational conferences (morning report and noon conference).
On my interview day there, none of the residents even showed up to morning report, such that the chief resident had to page people to come... overall, they didn't seem that excited about learning and i didn't feel like it was as collegial and friendly as i thought it was going to be.

 

[calichi]

I just interviewed at CHLA this week. When I did an elective there, I wasn't that impressed with the program, but my opinion changed somewhat during the interview day. I definitely do think the residents work harder than all the other programs I am interviewing at. It's definitely tertiary care, but the residents all seem to get along pretty well, and I think the training would be amazing. I wouldn't live in the Rodney though. Way too much like a dorm.....