Schools with the worst....

[bond007md]

.....secondaries? By this I mean which schools had the most arduous, long, secondaries? I am applying this year and need to cut the list of schools, so any sort of help would be appreciated.

I have heard Duke, Stanford, and Yale- if I am correct....thanks

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[CalBear]

stanford and yale are no longer nightmarish. stanford only has one question (i forget what it was) and yale has a question asking why you applied there.
some secondaries that i thought were horibble were:

UCLA (about 8 questions)
USC (about 8 questions)
University of Chicago (lots of questions also)
Ohio state (i sorta remember this being horrible)
chicago med (i sorta remeber this being horrible)

i don't think that you should base the schools you are applying to on their secondaries. oftentimes the schools change their applications from year to year. you should base your decision on grades, MCAT, curriculum, location, etc.

 

[cp00739]

this might be a dumb question but are most secondaries online? or if not, is there any way we can type the answers to the long answer questions? i mean, althought i'm not dr yet, my writing is horrible (naturally)..any responses?

 

[CalBear]

a handful of secondaries are on-line. last year there were about 20-25. there might or not be more this year.

in regards to writing your essays, many people typed them in w/ a typewriter. I used my laser printer to input my essays. I just had to make sure that the format was perfect b/f i fed the actual applications through.

 

[WaitingImpatiently]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by CalBear:
•stanford and yale are no longer nightmarish. stanford only has one question (i forget what it was) and yale has a question asking why you applied there.
some secondaries that i thought were horibble were:

UCLA (about 8 questions)
USC (about 8 questions)
University of Chicago (lots of questions also)
Ohio state (i sorta remember this being horrible)
chicago med (i sorta remeber this being horrible)

i don't think that you should base the schools you are applying to on their secondaries. oftentimes the schools change their applications from year to year. you should base your decision on grades, MCAT, curriculum, location, etc.•••••Eh? You might wanna refresh your memory!
Chicago Med didn't have an essay. All they want from you is $. I think it's either $75 or maybe $100. OSU has 2 essays, but I don't remember what they asked. They weren't too bad, though.

Univ of Chicago has a few relatively short essays, so it wasn't TOO bad.

I agree about UCLA and USC, though.

 

[Ceez]

Duke by far. I remember writing all of those damn essays. When I got my post-interview rejection letter later, I curse the long hours I spent writing those essays.

 

[El Jefe]

Duke and Pritzker were pretty bad. I didn't apply to either of those schools just because I didn't feel like dealing with their secondaries. Looking back I wish I had though.

 

[westsidespartan]

Although I didn't apply there, I remember people complaining about Rush's secondary... apparantly 14 questions or so.

 

[Forensic Chick]

Bond -- good topic -- I'm going to piggyback off of it...

Are there a lot of school that send out secondaries to everyone or are most selective? I know that they just want your money, and I'd surely like to get reject pre-secondary than post-secondary, saving $100/school...

Thanks!

 

[pocwana]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by Forensic Chick:
•Are there a lot of school that send out secondaries to everyone or are most selective? I know that they just want your money, and I'd surely like to get reject pre-secondary than post-secondary, saving $100/school...

Thanks!•••••in MSAR in that box, it says either:

School application fee to all applicants
or
School application fee after screening.

many private schools are all.
if you don't have msar, i'll look up a specific school.

 

[USeF]

I agree University of Chicago had 4 essays that are a bit more 'probing' than the typical "why do you like our school" sec's. My Q is for those that complain that too many of the admission practices are too numbers-heavy: aren't these more 'personal' essays exactly what you would seek?

There's actually a hidden incentive in doing one of the multi-Q sec's first. You can generally use slightly edited versions of those essays for later ones. Or, at the very least, you'll already have done most of the brainstorming for the other essays. I used portions from 3 of the 4 U of Chicago essays in more than half of the other 10 sec's I completed.

 

[cjt615]

Rush's secondary had something like 12 short essays, and on top of that you had to TYPE (as in with a typewriter)or PRINT in the provided space--what a pain.

CJT

 

[Explosivo]

I applied 2 years ago, applying again this year, and I remember Northwestern's being kind of a pain. There was this one question where you had to rank like 12 qualities that you feel a physician should have and explain why you ranked them the way you did. The problem was that they gave you very little space to do it because the secondary was in a word file or .pdf file and you could only type in the space allotted in the blank. I think there were like 3 other questions.

I agree with some of the other posters, Rush was kind of ridiculous as well. I remember printing out my responses on separate sheets of paper and sending them to rush along with the secondary.

Loyola had like 4 or 5 questions as well but they weren't all that difficult. However, I did have to print out my answers, then cut and paste them onto the secondary, and then photocopy the secondary so it would look *neat* and mailing that in. It was a big hassle.

 

[bebe2]

I concur that Duke's application was long and took very ounce of energy and motivation to complete it. It was the first secondary I "received" (online) and was almost the last one I submitted.

You cannot access the application through Drako's link so I am posting the questions. Keep in mind, as said before that the questions could change for next year (the class before mine had the same "ethical dilemma question-prepare this one ahead of time).

Short Answer (I believe these were 1000 characters or less)

Question 1

In the adjacent space, please provide us information on the most important community service/volunteer activities in which you have been involved. Please indicate your role, the length of time that you were involved, and the number of hours/week, if applicable, that you participated. How has participation in these activities impacted your preparation for a career in medicine?

Question 2

Among the service activities that you listed on your AMCAS application, in which activity did you feel that you truly made an impact on someone else? What was the impact on you?

Question 3

Each student brings strengths and weaknesses to the medical school class. How might your own experiences or lack of experiences, strengths and/or weaknesses, advantages and/or disadvantages contribute to the makeup of next year's class? How have these impacted your personal development and how have they contributed to your preparation for a career in medicine?

Question 4

In the adjacent space, please provide a list of your honors and awards. Indicate the one(s) of which you are proudest and why.

Question 5

Please provide a chronological list of your work experience while in college, or subsequent to your graduation, if applicable. Please indicate the length of your employment, number of hours worked/week, and your exact job title.

Question 6

Have you participated in or conducted investigative research? If so, please describe below. If you have published or are listed as an author on a publication or a manuscript in press, please provide the title, authors, and name of journal.

Essay Questions

Essay 1

Describe a difficult moral or ethical situation that you have encountered and how you dealt with it. What personal strengths, values, and beliefs helped you deal with this challenge? (5000 characters or less)

Essay 2

The scientific and popular news media have heralded several "life-extending" and "life-altering" technologies--among which are embryonic stem-cell research, cloning, genetic intervention, and organ transplantation. While such technologies represent remarkable developments and applications of our emerging scientific understanding, these technologies raise critical issues with respect to the ethics, morality and economics of these technologies. Identify some of the critical issues evoked by such technologies and address what potential moral, theological, and ethical questions might arise from the decisions made regarding developing and using these technologies in the care of patients (5000 characters or less).

 

[Assassin]

UCONN hands down. you'll need to produce 6 essays for them. 3 page limit, but i think it only makes it that much tougher...you need to come up with something original and develop it within half a page; repeat 6 times - you get the picture

 

[Doc AdamK in 2006]

NYU's was silly.

They wanted you to reprint all the classes you took and the grade.

They wanted your entire AMCAS app on either nice expensive paper.

AK

 

[shorrin]

Rush was THE worst! 12 essay Q's, what a nightmare.......

 

[matthew0126]

USC was by far the worst for me. Those quesitons went on and on... and on... and on

And then I didn't even go interview when they asked me too! Hehe, ah well.

 

[yOUkNOWtHIS]

you forgot about Chicago-Pritzer and Duke. Their applications are SOOOOOO long it's really ridiculous.

 

[Mary Jane Watson]

I know this is supposed to be about the worst secondary, but the easiest I've heard of so far,(I only filled out three) was UAB's. Just confirmed your address and phone number, entered the names and addresses of your personal recomendations. Submit. Took me a total of 5 minutes - it was all online too, so no mailing, well except for the app fee which was $65. So not all of them are terrible.

 

[KKay999]

I talked to many other applicants during my various interviews who said that they didn't even submit a secondary for Duke because of those hideous questions!

 

[none]

UCLA gets my vote far and away! The questions were long, but that wasn't the main problem...they wanted the answers on their paper! Most secondaries I could cut (literally) and paste on to the forms, but not LA...I spent 48 hours trying to line my text up with their forms! Don't even try looking for a public typewriter on the UCSD campus, there aren't any!

 

[kafshar]

In order (from worst to getting better):

1) Duke
2) USC
3) Univ of Chicago (Pritzker)

The top 3 are especially bad.

4) Northwestern
5) UCSD (2 page autobiography of yourself)

Honorable mentions: UConn and Vanderbilt

I didnt think UCLA was bad at all. One reason is that they are only 800 characters each (only like 8 lines of text). Another reason.... they give you a secondary so late and the questions are very generic.... that you have the questions already answered way beforehand... just have to do a little editing to fit in one paragraph.

 

[oldman]

I don't actually know. this past year a lot of schools sent out automatic secondaries simply because of the AMCAS fiasco.

•••quote:•••Originally posted by Forensic Chick:
•Bond -- good topic -- I'm going to piggyback off of it...

Are there a lot of school that send out secondaries to everyone or are most selective? I know that they just want your money, and I'd surely like to get reject pre-secondary than post-secondary, saving $100/school...

Thanks!•••••

 

[The Fly]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by me:
•In order (from worst to getting better):

1) Duke
2) USC
3) Univ of Chicago (Pritzker)

The top 3 are especially bad.

4) Northwestern
5) UCSD (2 page autobiography of yourself)
•••••UCSD's was just plain stupid. . . as far as the others, I agree. . .

-Duke
-U of Chicago
-U of Pittsburgh
-UCLA
-UCSD
-Northwestern

All of these were a pain, with Duke taking the cake for tasking my patience and my sanity after filling out so many apps.

HOWEVER. . . from what I hear, stanford used to make you HAND write your essays (and there were definitely more than eight -- I think perhaps even 11). Columbia, too, used to make you handwrite the essays (through '99 I think). So, comparatively, we don't have it that bad!

 

[leafs]

university of chicago and rush

 

[spumoni620]

BUMP so us 04 applicants can get a glimpse of what we're headed for...

 

[Jonkst]

I don't know, I just finished pritzker, and it was long, lots of questions, but at least they were interesting, not Why do you want to be a doctor stuff that you can't really tell them anything about yourself in anyway.

Just my opinion though.

 

[AverageMan]

Stony Brook has three one page essays. I haven't started it yet, but I'm not looking forward to it. Pritzker was a pain. OSU would also have been a bother, if the second question wasn't the same as NYU's essay

 

[Maple]

Didn't Loyola's have several essay q's too? I can't really remember...its been tooooo long!

 

[SarahGM]

Wait... maybe this is a dumb question, but are y'all printing your secondaries on NICE paper?

 

[TroutBum]

I don't know if it's changed, but last year Vandy's was killer. You had to write a 2000 word autobiography. WTF?

Luckily they rejected me pre-secondary so I didn't have to finish

They make it available to all applicants right away but don't tell you to submit it until you've cleared your screening. If I remember correctly, there were a number of people who completed it and waited to send it in only to find out they didn't pass the screen

 

[carrigallen]

From what I remember (also from other applicants):

1. Duke
2. Rush
3. U of Chicago
4. Vandy

I think the hardest thing about Vandy was their online software was kind of weird/convoluted...you couldn't use back buttons, it was confusing to save information..i think you had to complete each section and could not return to it, because it relayed each section back to the school after you completed it.

Keep in mind though that longer secondaries mean fewer applicants, so if you manage to finish Duke's secondary you'll probably have a decent chance for an interview.

 

[AverageMan]

Originally posted by carrigallen

Keep in mind though that longer secondaries mean fewer applicants, so if you manage to finish Duke's secondary you'll probably have a decent chance for an interview.

I can't see that really being the cause, mainly because it's Duke, and people (like me) will go through anything for a chance there, so I would imagine they get a great number of secondaries returned. I could see this being the case for the East Podunk University school of medicine where if the secondary is a big pain, students will decide that it isn't worth their time (and decide that they should spend their time on that monster secondary from Duke )

 

[ComplexPuzzle]

i didnt really read through all of the posts...but i just wanted to say UCLA's secondary was not that bad...although there were 8 or so questions...you had the option of only answering those which you wanted to...at least that was the impression i got...and so i didnt answer all the questions...some of the questions were situation specific and i really didnt have a situation that i could relate to them