Signed contract but thinking about not going to work there?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

Long Dong

My middle name is Duc.
15+ Year Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2004
Messages
1,894
Reaction score
13
This is not for residency, this is for the job after. I've signed my contract with a group but got offered a better deal long term in a better location closer to family. What can they do to you if you've already signed but decide not to got there? The contract doesn't state anything about not working there period. It does state I have to give back the signing bonus if I don't work there for at least one year, the bonus I've not collected yet ether. Thoughts?

Members don't see this ad.
 
This is not for residency, this is for the job after. I've signed my contract with a group but got offered a better deal long term in a better location closer to family. What can they do to you if you've already signed but decide not to got there? The contract doesn't state anything about not working there period. It does state I have to give back the signing bonus if I don't work there for at least one year, the bonus I've not collected yet ether. Thoughts?
1. In theory, you had an attorney review the contract before you signed and would go back to said attorney for guidance.
2. Presuming no attorney, you would obviously have a reasonable understanding of contract to sign without counsel. So, you would look in your contract for the section as to your rights to terminate and/or their rights to terminate and/or etc....

Either way, this really is not an issue you should be seeking general opinions from an anonymous forum on-line.....
 
1. In theory, you had an attorney review the contract before you signed and would go back to said attorney for guidance.
2. Presuming no attorney, you would obviously have a reasonable understanding of contract to sign without counsel. So, you would look in your contract for the section as to your rights to terminate and/or their rights to terminate and/or etc....

Either way, this really is not an issue you should be seeking general opinions from an anonymous forum on-line.....

1. Have an attorney looking into it, but attorney is kind of new, friend from college.
2. Getting others opinion if anyone has actually done this not just the theory.
3. Contract mentions rights to terminate but no mention of not starting at all.
4. Thank you for your contribution, didn't know so many people have a PhD in the study of the buttock, cuz you sure are a smart azz with no real helpful contribution.
 
Last edited:
Just a gentle reminder to everyone that, even if you don't like the advice you're being given, that's no excuse to insult the person giving the advice.

Thanks.
 
1. Have an attorney looking into it, but attorney is kind of new, friend from college.
2. Getting others opinion if anyone has actually done this not just the theory.
3. Contract mentions rights to terminate but no mention of not starting at all.
4. Thank you for your contribution, didn't know so many people have a PhD in the study of the buttock, cuz you sure are a smart azz with no real helpful contribution.
In reference to intelligence.....

The gist of what you are saying is ~ you hired a college buddy attorney with no significant amount of experience [not enough to answer you questions adequately] and he/she for whatever reason couldn't explain the basics of your contract so you are just seeking random advice/commentary from non-attornies.... wonderful, sounds like a series of wise and intelligent decisions! Your on a forum while you have a contracted attorney and you are whining of lack of helpful contribution to you matter.... ironic.
 
In reference to intelligence.....

The gist of what you are saying is ~ you hired a college buddy attorney with no significant amount of experience [not enough to answer you questions adequately] and he/she for whatever reason couldn't explain the basics of your contract so you are just seeking random advice/commentary from non-attornies.... wonderful, sounds like a series of wise and intelligent decisions! Your on a forum while you have a contracted attorney and you are whining of lack of helpful contribution to you matter.... ironic.

Buddy who is an attorney did it for free. I'm a poor resident. There is alot of people who have been posting for along time and i've actually trust their advice some of which have helped me land into my competitive residency in the first place so not all of them are randoms. I've actually become friends with some on FB.

Again I was wondering if anyone had actually done this or know of anyone who has. I've already gotten some PMs with good advice. I would love to exchange insults with you just for entertainment but I've been given an infraction already from my earlier post. Lets just say some docs assume to much and kind of full of themselves by talking down to others.
 
Last edited:
This is not for residency, this is for the job after. I've signed my contract with a group but got offered a better deal long term in a better location closer to family. What can they do to you if you've already signed but decide not to got there? The contract doesn't state anything about not working there period. It does state I have to give back the signing bonus if I don't work there for at least one year, the bonus I've not collected yet ether. Thoughts?

I am not an attorney, so my thoughts are worth nothing.

In theory, they can sue you. If there are no penalties in the contract, they probably can't realistically do anything to you. If they have refused to hire other people and then can't hire someone to fill your slot, they might try to claim that they were relying on you and now they have [insert dollars here] damages that they claim you are responsible for. They may be able to come after your for the cost of recruiting someone. There may be other state related quasi-contractual damages that they can claim. It is unlikely that they would actually try and litigate, unless they can claim significant damages, but you never know.

Keep in mind that employment and contact law are very state specific. It is probably worth dropping a few hundred bucks on a labor and employment attorney. Then again, you knew that already....
 
Last edited:
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 13 (4 members and 9 guests)
mTOR, BADMD, Law2Doc, Long Dong


I feela veryuh longuh tl;dr postuh comin
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
This is not for residency, this is for the job after. I've signed my contract with a group but got offered a better deal long term in a better location closer to family. What can they do to you if you've already signed but decide not to got there? The contract doesn't state anything about not working there period. It does state I have to give back the signing bonus if I don't work there for at least one year, the bonus I've not collected yet ether. Thoughts?

Couple of things. First, you not only have a professional degree which presumes a level of contractual sophistication, but also concede you had an attorney look at it (regardless of how green they were). So the presumption in any court is that you understood, negotiated and ultimately agreed with all the contract provisions. So whatever it says about terminating in the contract is going to apply. Terminating a contract has little to do with ever "starting work". The second you sign a contract it may be in effect, and to get out of it you have to terminate it, even if you never started. So you may be obligated to stay on for X months to legally terminate, to give requisite notice, etc. Since you aren't going to do that, you will be in breach. So you go to the provisions of the contract that discuss material breaches.

Second, when you sign a contract and the other side to the agreement reasonably relies on the contract, they may incur damages and you may be liable for them. So, for instance, if a company calls off it's employment search, relying on you coming to work for them, then when you renege, whatever reasonable cost they incur now to replace your position can be damages coming out of your pocket. If they ordered custom stuff for you --white coats, business cards, etc, that's all going to come out of your pocket as damages. If they paid you a signing bonus, that's coming back. If they lose any business because they are short staffed on the date you were supposed to start but didn't, they may be able to show damages. So in short, they get back whatever they paid you, plus reasonably incurred damages, plus sometimes whatever it says they get from you in the event of a material breach of the contract. And even if you somehow didn't end up damaging the plaintiff significantly, you are going to run up legal bills very quickly demonstrating that fact.

Not to mention that you may get a bad reputation and burn some bridges to boot. The short answer is that you never ever ever want to sign a contract thinking that it's something you can get out of. The dumbest people in the world are folks who say things like "this contract is not worth the paper it's printed on". I've never met a person with this attitude that didn't end up paying out a lot of green paper that was worth exactly the denomination printed on it. A contract is a binding obligation, and one that the legal system does a good job of enforcing. If you signed one, think long and hard and get really good legal counsel before you opt to breach it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
This thread makes me happy :)

Out of curiosity, how far away from your presumed start date are you?
 
While all the things law2doc said are factually correct, the reality of these situations is that if you call the group up and just say straight up you dont want to work there and explain why they will usually let you out relatively painlessly, especially when you are wanting to be in another city (you arent going to a competing group) and it sounds like youve not gone very far down the road with the first group anyway.

These things usually get ugly when you are trying to jump to a competing group, doesnt sound like the case here.

Also, get an experienced lawyer...good one will charge you about 500 bucks to read the contract and advise...well worth it.
 
While all the things law2doc said are factually correct, the reality of these situations is that if you call the group up and just say straight up you dont want to work there and explain why they will usually let you out relatively painlessly, especially when you are wanting to be in another city (you arent going to a competing group) and it sounds like youve not gone very far down the road with the first group anyway.

These things usually get ugly when you are trying to jump to a competing group, doesnt sound like the case here.

Also, get an experienced lawyer...good one will charge you about 500 bucks to read the contract and advise...well worth it.

I agree with most of what has been said here, especially the last poster. My worst case scenario would be that the practice cannot fill your slot and hires a locums physician to fill it. They could legitimately claim the difference between your salary and his or her locums rate until they hire a permanent replacement. Unlikely, but possible.

I would especailly emphasize the last comment. Have an attorney review your contract. Not just any attorney, but one who is experienced with professional employment contracts. Consider it a $500 insurance policy for a $150,000 income. If you don't have the case, borrow it. Further, if you are entering a partnership, you need to invest a few thousand dollars for legal and accounting advice. I would find an attorney who specializes in medical partnerships in the state of the practice. I've encountered several physicians who found irregularities in practices after they joined. They were just stuck. As a physician, you simply are not competent to evaluate a partnership agreement or review the books. I wouldn't do it and I am an attorney.

Ed
 
One important lesson from the classic tome of "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" is to hire experts and pay them to do their jobs.

You'll get dinged one way or another in this situation so ironically you should consult with an experienced contract lawyer as soon as you can.
 
Our group has had this happen to us. We had a guy who signed a contract who basically didn't show up without telling anyone. He got a contract he thought was better and was too chicken to say anything. Don't do this. I would contact your group pronto and say you are interested in joining another group. I don't know the details of your contract, but it probably some some provision allowing either side to terminate the agreement within x number of days notice (in my case, 90 days). It is not in their best interest to train you, get credentials, find patients, etc, if you give your notice on day #1. Most likely, they'll let you out of the contract, minus the signing bonus and move on. You may have some legal obligations, but I don't think this group has much to gain my compelling you to take a job you don't want. Not showing up, or signing another contract before this issues is resolved, are tactics to avoid.

Cheers
 
I think the best thing that can happen to that group is that you break the contract and don't work for them... Feel bad for the other group you fooled into hiring you.
 
depending on what state you are in, some states allow for contracts to be terminated within 30 days of signature. it fully depends where you are. must see an attorney. 500 dollars is NOTHING compared to headache in the future.
 
...I don't know the details of your contract, but it probably some some provision allowing either side to terminate the agreement within x number of days notice (in my case, 90 days)...
depending on what state you are in, some states allow for contracts to be terminated within 30 days of signature. it fully depends where you are. must see an attorney. 500 dollars is NOTHING compared to headache in the future.
All points above are easily explained within 5 minutes by even the most unseasoned attorney. Even easier if said attorney had the slightest involvement in the original contract. An attorney, apparently involved in the original contract, would have zero difficulty in answering such questions of termination, specific governing laws, etc... If he/she does not and/or lack awareness of these governing laws and served as counsel in execution of said contract, I'm not an attorney, but such conditions would seem to represent legal malpractice.

Any finer points can obviously NOT be addressed on a forum.... as echoed repeatedly, "...I don't know the details of your contract...".
 
... If he/she does not and/or lack awareness of these governing laws and served as counsel in execution of said contract, I'm not an attorney, but such conditions would seem to represent legal malpractice.
...

Well, in defense of the above-described attorney, we don't actually know the terms of engagement. If this person was just asked to "review" the contract, or address a particular set of OP's questions not dealing with termination/breach, there may be no malpractice issues at all.

One thing I learned as a lawyer is that while you can often protect your client from other litigants, you have a much harder time protecting them from their own actions.
 
Well, in defense of the above-described attorney, we don't actually know the terms of engagement. If this person was just asked to "review" the contract, or address a particular set of OP's questions not dealing with termination/breach, there may be no malpractice issues at all...
I hear you. But, in general, at the very least such a cursory read is both stupid and pretty useless. The OP comments he used his friend attorney to review the contract. In this setting, there is no doubt the attorney, even a new grad would likely, more often then not, have a better appreciation and understanding of terms in a contract. Clearly the naive/non-lawyer party needed help. Any attorney that ~"kind of helps but not really" have done the friend/client a disservice.

In the OPs example, he/she has apparently returned to said attorney for the current tipic of this thread.... but is for whatever reason still seeking on-line anonymous help for a matter, that again should take even a novice attorney a few minutes. i.e. flip to paragraphs about termination and/or breach of contract. We aren't talking about a healthcare bill in congress that is thousands of pages long. Typically, a med employ contract is in the 30 pages or less range of size.

I would also add, with or without an attorney, most physicians I know will read the contract and at least recognize the termination section. We aren't talking about illiterate imbeciles here. Yes, an attorney is important. However, the language with few exceptions does not get excessively complicated. The attorney in most of these first contract situations serves as a "fine points translator"....
 
Buddy who is an attorney did it for free. I'm a poor resident.

That's a terrible excuse - the contract issue you post about and the potential problems that could arise from it are major issues. And what job you take after residency is a major decision. If the attorney costs 4 figures it is worth it. You're not getting advice on where to go for spring break.

I suspect there will not be major issues if you get out of your contract to take another job, but there are potential problems:

1) Burning bridges, as said above
2) The group will then have to hire someone else. This is a late date so they are going to be pretty irritated
3) What if the other group isn't serious about the second job offer close to home? What if they lowball you because they know you are stuck with them now?

Bailing on a contract you already signed is only advisable if and when the new job is close to your dream job. Just because it's close to family doesn't make it qualify. You can always change jobs later if you find out it isn't working. But if this other job is not going to come around anytime soon and is the best possible option, then breaking the contract might be advisable (with legal help).
 
Update contract had a 90 day termination without having to give a reason clause. Did it with no harm no foul. Much happier now cause I have the location of choice (by the beach) working only 4 days a week. Took a 60k a year pay cut from my base salary but w/e it's all about the % collections anyway and the new location had 50% instead the other first location that had a higher base but only 40% collections. It's all about those RVU's.
 
Update contract had a 90 day termination without having to give a reason clause. Did it with no harm no foul. Much happier now cause I have the location of choice (by the beach) working only 4 days a week. Took a 60k a year pay cut from my base salary but w/e it's all about the % collections anyway and the new location had 50% instead the other first location that had a higher base but only 40% collections. It's all about those RVU's.

It's nice to see a little business ruthlessness injected into today's doctors. We need to more business-like and less altruistic to avoid giving our hard earned profits go to CEOs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Update contract had a 90 day termination without having to give a reason clause. Did it with no harm no foul.

Interesting. Just curious, does this buyer's remorse clause go both ways? That is, could the the practice hire you and then change their mind within 90 days and terminate the contract?
 
Interesting. Just curious, does this buyer's remorse clause go both ways? That is, could the the practice hire you and then change their mind within 90 days and terminate the contract?

Yeap the clause said both parties could terminate prior to 90 days in writting without giving a reason.
 
This is not for residency, this is for the job after. I've signed my contract with a group but got offered a better deal long term in a better location closer to family. What can they do to you if you've already signed but decide not to got there? The contract doesn't state anything about not working there period. It does state I have to give back the signing bonus if I don't work there for at least one year, the bonus I've not collected yet ether. Thoughts?


Hi,
I'm in a similar situation as yours, did they ask you to pay any recruitment costs?
 
Top