Switching

[MyOphelia]

I am an ophtho resident who is second-guessing my choice. I am interested in Pathology.

What is life as a path resident like? What are job prospects? What about fellowships? Do pathologists make enough money to pay off these monstrous student debt? Are you happy? Any advice?

Thanks,

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[LADoc00]

I am an ophtho resident who is second-guessing my choice. I am interested in Pathology.

What is life as a path resident like? What are job prospects? What about fellowships? Do pathologists make enough money to pay off these monstrous student debt? Are you happy? Any advice?

Thanks,

Curious as to why.....ophtho has a really similar lifestyle as path. I would say even that residency training for Anatomic path is much tougher at many places. Both are 5 year training gigs essentially.

Dunno, I would stick with ophtho if I were you unless you really just suck at it.

 

[CameronFrye]

I would say even that residency training for Anatomic path is much tougher at many places.

I'd have to agree with that, especially once you get past your intern year.

 

[DW]

I'd third that. Maybe you have grown to hate operating on eyeballs or you really love looking at slides, but you would have to be out of your ever lovin' mind to drop optho for path for lifestyle reasons. Same schedule, much better job prospects as I understand.

 

[MyOphelia]

Wait a minute on the lifestyle comments...
I don't want to do surgery anymore! That's the central issue. Just to make a point...Lifestyle in ophthalmology, while nothing compared to surgery or medicine, isn't as cushy as everyone thinks it is. I'm at a level one trauma center so I'm usually up all night, but since it's home call, I have to be in clinic the entire day the next day. And, depending on the service, clinic can stretch to 7PM and, if you happen to be in the OR, the day sometimes extends to 8 or 9PM. However, that would be manageable, IF I loved what I was doing. I don't. I don't like surgery. Its seems like I should've figured that out before starting my residency, but it has just now become apparent to me. So, I'm in a difficult situation. There are only a few number of residents per year. Thus, not only is it hard to find a position to switch into, one ends up "screwing over" one's fellow residents.

By the way, I have a friend in Pathology with a horrible lifestyle right now-regularly violating the 80 hr work week. So, nothing should be assumed, even in "lifestyle friendly" fields.

Not everything is as transparent as it seems at first glance, you all should know this by now.

 

[DW]

Sorry if it seemed like I was jumping down your throat about lifestyle. Just seems like a lot of people think path is going to be some 9-5 fairyland, and I am at a pretty benign program and thats just not the case. Not only is it a lot of work, but I think for any possible specialty I could have applied to pathology is the one medical school prepared me for the absolute least so I'm constantly trying to catch up by reading at home. I also think few people would argue that in regards to employment flexibility and potential financial compensation optho is just a much better deal these days.

But if you hate optho/surgery, you should switch to something else, end of story. I absolutely think you should get the hell out if it is making you miserable. Would you rather stick around for the sake of not "screwing your other residents" and be a miserable bastard for the next few years and "screw over" your family/friends/yourself? Many of us didn't go into residency fully aware of what we were getting into because (at least I believe) a few 4th year electives in a given field still doesn't tell you everything you need to know about your field of choice. If you truly think you made a mistake, cut your losses and figure out something that might make you happier.

 

[yaah]

In all fairness, you asked about switching due to "life, job prospects, and salary," and didn't provide any other info, so I think you should cut everyone a little bit of slack. You didn't even mention surgery until your later post. It's hard to provide any decent advice or information when the original post just asks about lifestyle and salary. I can understand hating surgery and procedures in general, because that's like me. But it seems like the majority of med students and residents LOVE procedures (I have no idea why).

It is true that if you don't like what you're doing now, you are unlikely to learn to appreciate it later. But I don't know, I guess it would depend on how long you have been in the field, how strong your convictions are, and how your life could or could not change as you progress through your training.

Most pathologists don't make as much money as most opthalmologists but we do pretty well. Fellowships increase your options depending on which fellowships and why you are doing them. But the thing is, you have to LIKE pathology - you didn't mention in your field why you were wanting to switch to path, I wonder if it is just by process of elimination (you don't like surgery, so lots of fields are out, and medicine doesn't fit either, so that's out). People who pick path by means of elimination instead of choice generally are less happy and less successful. It's a hard truth to come to, but people need to ask themselves those legitimate questions without feeling defensive or feel like people are attacking them, so I don't want you to think that's the reason I say that. As I said, I don't know your reasons why you're picking pathology or how much you even know about the field. I would hope you would try (or have tried) to experience the field a bit before making such a crucial decision.

 

[pathdawg]

Just seems like a lot of people think path is going to be some 9-5 fairyland

Its most certainly not. Its a 9-4 fairyland.

Its 3:45.

Screw you guys...I'm going home.

btw, my parting advice: You'll be better able to set your hours as an optho attending. I'd stick with it if I were you, unless you really hate the O.R. that much (and who could blame you).

Best of luck.

edited for misleading typo.

 

[mdjobexchange]

I switched from pathology to anesthesia in 1996 and am glad I did. Path is facing some of the same outsourcing issues that radiology is. They are also getting pinched for the tastier parts of their business like GI biopsies by companies like labcorp and quest. I have friends who are pathologists and they are feeling some pressure.

Remember that lifestyle in residency does not equal lifestyle after residency.

If you are a competitive candidate, think about something like rad onc or nuclear med. They are cerebral like path, but less easily outsourced. In addition, you can buy into their imaging center and make money off of that.

 

[LADoc00]

I switched from pathology to anesthesia in 1996 and am glad I did. Path is facing some of the same outsourcing issues that radiology is. They are also getting pinched for the tastier parts of their business like GI biopsies by companies like labcorp and quest. I have friends who are pathologists and they are feeling some pressure.

Remember that lifestyle in residency does not equal lifestyle after residency.

If you are a competitive candidate, think about something like rad onc or nuclear med. They are cerebral like path, but less easily outsourced. In addition, you can buy into their imaging center and make money off of that.

There are elements of path which cant be outsourced, things like CP are in essence mangerial and can be used to form a nidus from which to grow a business. Path does face outsourcing but honestly a shrewd strategist can easily out market the big boys in most Smalltown USAs. I would agree, in 1996 gas was a lost and forgotten goldmine but it has its own issues.

I agree to the imaging center buy in, although not all imaging centers turn big profits, not even close.

Im beginning to really sense that all sorts of specialities are on the cusp of big changes. I think many fields that have rested at the top for the last 2 decades are in for a fall, how much is the question now.

I will say first hand evidence is telling me there are hospitals and med communities where nearly everyone does very well and others where only a few specialities make good money. Picking a location maybe in the end a far larger economic decision than you actual speciality.

For example, who cares what speciality you are if you work for the VA, Kaiser, County hospitals, academic institutions etc as salary isnt for the most part varying more than 20-30%. Might as well do what you love the most.

 

[LADoc00]

Its most certainly not. Its a 9-4 fairyland.

Its 3:45.

Screw you guys...I'm going home.

btw, my parting advice: You'll be better able to set your hours as an optho attending. I'd stick with it if I were you, unless you really hate the O.R. that much (and you could blame you).

Best of luck.

Yep, Im almost always out by 4pm. Although some days Im in at 7am. Lots of 3day weekends tho.

 

[Thaitanium]

Can I have your job LA?

 

[pathdawg]

Yep, Im almost always out by 4pm. Although some days Im in at 7am. Lots of 3day weekends tho.

My usual day is 8:30/9:00 am to 4pm. I get the occasional (about once month) three-day weekend. If I wanted to work 7am to 7pm, I would have stayed in internal medicine.

 

[docbiohazard]

My usual day is 8:30/9:00 am to 4pm. I get the occasional (about once month) three-day weekend. If I wanted to work 7am to 7pm, I would have stayed in internal medicine.

Amen.

I worked with an IM hospitalist, he had a schedule of roughly 21 days on, 7 days off. However, on his "week off", he had numerous committee meetings, departmental meetings, and the like. Why that is attractive to anyone, I have no idea.

BH

 

[Sean2tall]

But it seems like the majority of med students and residents LOVE procedures (I have no idea why).

I think this is an interesting phenomenon . . . I have noticed that when students are hanging around, sometimes residents, something I will hear a lot is, "They let me do a central line/IV start/rectal exam/whatever today," whereas what I am usually thinking is, "They made me do a central line/IV/rectal/whatever." (Occasionally people will say that out loud too, but not as often.)

Anyhow, as the person who is not jazzed about that sort of thing, it is kind of shocking to hear it in that way. Maybe partially people are trying to feign enthusiasm, or I guess some people just feel like a doctor when they do procedures.

So I guess I can appreciate how much of a goober I sounded when I said, "They let me cut my own frozen today and stain my own slide!"

 

[LADoc00]

My usual day is 8:30/9:00 am to 4pm. I get the occasional (about once month) three-day weekend. If I wanted to work 7am to 7pm, I would have stayed in internal medicine.

My corporate goal/mission is to get to the level where each pathologist is working 8-4 for a week straight, then the following week is a 4-day with friday off followed by a week vacation. That would translate into 9 work days to every 6 vacation days, a perfect balance IMO.