UCSF vs. UCLA (traditional and Drew track)

[unbewilderedelephant]

Hi everyone.

Having a tough time choosing which school to go to. I understand the differences in ranks, but please bear with me.

UCSF Pros:

- Top 5

- Clinical opportunities are elite given that the hospital receives very complicated cases.

- Name may carry a bit more weight when applying to residency.

- Good quality of life for preclinical years

UCSF Cons:

- I honestly don’t like the city and weather. Pretty gloomy and hate all the hills.

- Have to pay about ~60k more than UCLA (140k debt totaled over 4 years)



UCLA Pros:

- Haven’t visited the city much, but imagine it can’t be worse than SF lol.

- 3rd year option that allows you to do research or complete a business degree so I wouldn’t have to do a 5th theoretically if I picked a more competitive specialty.

- Only have ~85k in debt total over all years.

UCLA Cons:

- Not as reputable.

- Seems like people might have a busier schedule than SF students since 1st and 2nd year are crammed together.


This year, both schools have pretty comparable match lists so not too worried there. Just don’t know if I’m overthinking this and should just go to SF or pick LA due to the 3rd year option. It would allow me to do more research to hopefully be competitive enough to stay in CA

Any words of wisdom y’all can share?

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[deleted1144897]

Congratulations on such great options!!

60k is not much more, considering your future physician salary and loan repayment programs. For instance, the NIH has a loan repayment program if you are interested in academic medicine and I think the success rate for that is quite high (~40%?, please check). UCSF is a research POWERHOUSE, consistently ranked at the top in NIH funding for the past decade, and you will certainly have exceptional research opportunities there.

 

[chilly_md]

UCLA. I am not sure why anyone would say it is not as reputable, and you seem to want the sun and warmth of Southern California.

 

[deleted1158770]

UCLA. I am not sure why anyone would say it is not as reputable, and you seem to want the sun and warmth of Southern California.

Both are obviously very good schools and reputable. UCSF is just a T5 research school for a reason. And while Southern cal has agreeable weather for the most part, it isn’t necessarily super sunny and warm all year like everyone thinks it is. Similarly SF isn’t gloomy all the time; it can be nice and sunny at times. Comes down to how big of a factor weather is in the equation but both cities are great and have a lot to do.

 

[chilly_md]

Both are obviously very good schools and reputable. UCSF is just a T5 research school for a reason. And while Southern cal has agreeable weather for the most part, it isn’t necessarily super sunny and warm all year like everyone thinks it is. Similarly SF isn’t gloomy all the time; it can be nice and sunny at times. Comes down to how big of a factor weather is in the equation but both cities are great and have a lot to do.

It essentially is sunny or warm for the vast majority of the year. Nice and sunny at times can be written about a lot of places.

The OP did not appear to like the city of SF and would have to pay more to go there.

 

[deleted1095841]

UCLA is a great school, but it's not in the same league as UCSF. UCSF is a peer of Harvard and Hopkins. UCLA is on the level of Yale, Cornell, NYU, or Pitt; all great, but not quite the same.

 

[unbewilderedelephant]

UCLA. I am not sure why anyone would say it is not as reputable, and you seem to want the sun and warmth of Southern California.

Everyone I’ve talked to before have always mentioned that passing up UCSF is foolish because of its reputation which is why I’m having such a hard time deciding. I know both schools are great, but don’t know if I’m losing out on anything.

I understand SF is ridiculously good for research, but I imagine LA isn’t that far behind :/

 

[unbewilderedelephant]

UCLA is a great school, but it's not in the same league as UCSF. UCSF is a peer of Harvard and Hopkins. UCLA is on the level of Yale, Cornell, NYU, or Pitt; all great, but not quite the same.

When I compare schools, I typically look at their match lists to see if they’re comparable. Is that the wrong way to compare schools? I imagine if match lists are similar then everything that happens in between isn’t as important anymore, right?

 

[deleted1158770]

It’s good to look at match lists (especially from multiple years) but a lot of people say to take comparing them with a grain of salt because they depend on a lot of factors (student performance, preference, etc.) making them hard to analyze.

 

[chilly_md]

Everyone I’ve talked to before have always mentioned that passing up UCSF is foolish because of its reputation which is why I’m having such a hard time deciding. I know both schools are great, but don’t know if I’m losing out on anything.

I understand SF is ridiculously good for research, but I imagine LA isn’t that far behind :/

If you don’t match what you wanted at UCLA, it likely wouldn’t have happened at UCSF either.

If you’re from CA and intend to stay in-state or on the West Coast, they are essentially equivalent.

The Drew program could provide you a unique and memorable experience as well.

 

[deleted1095841]

When I compare schools, I typically look at their match lists to see if they’re comparable. Is that the wrong way to compare schools? I imagine if match lists are similar then everything that happens in between isn’t as important anymore, right?

Match lists are a great starting point, but there are other factors other than qualification/academic strength that determine where people match (e.g. location preferences, family issues, etc). Also, people only match at one place, so it's hard to know where else they "could have matched" if their rank list was different. (i.e. which programs ranked them sufficiently high to make matching a possibility)

So you'd have to pool data from the last 10 years at least to get a good signal. And you'd need some way of scoring to determine what a "successful" match is. (Could use Doximity ranking, but we know that no ranking is perfect). Then you can compare, for example, over the last 10 years, x people from UCSF (as a percentage of the overall class size) matched "successfully" in say, dermatology, while y from UCLA did. And this will yield a different result for each specialty, so this exercise is much more useful if you know what specialty you're going into. (I didn't at this point)

 

[peroxisome]

If you don’t match what you wanted at UCLA, it likely wouldn’t have happened at UCSF either.

If you’re from CA and intend to stay in-state or on the West Coast, they are essentially equivalent.

The Drew program could provide you a unique and memorable experience as well.

Honestly agreed with this. Soooo much of the UCLA class also matches into California/West Coast if they so choose to. I think both options are stellar - can't go wrong! Go where you think you'll be happier.

 

[deleted1161395]

I agree with most of the above. Yet unless you've lived in both cities it's hard to compare them. I recommend that the OP visits LA if possible (I know a lot of people that love or hate both SF and LA). The weather is nicer in LA, yet there are other unknown factors for the OP to consider like LA having worse public transit, being more spread out, and the traffic. The vibes are different too with more of the creator type vs. business/tech. LA is warmer, but in my experience SF weather isn't too bad. SF rarely dips below the mid-50's/60's and the fog/cold is infrequent (it is not cold like the East Coast). Plus some UCSF students live in warmer areas of the city since public transit is so accessible. Golden gate and mission dolores parks are very nice. It's up to the OP obvs, but I think they should focus more on academic and curriculum offerings for their decision. The price difference is something to consider but likely not too significant in the long run. Echoing the sentiments above, both will prep you incredibly well to stay on the West Coast for residency! I wouldn't necessarily agree with them being "equal" though. You can match into top residencies from both, but I think that UCSF does give you a slight leg up for academic medicine and residency placement.

 

[unbewilderedelephant]

Thank you everyone! I am currently trying to visit LA to see if I like the area a little more than SF. Seems like both schools will get me most of what I want from what y’all have said. I will keep y’all updated!

 

[deleted1017183]

I will say that as I continued to investigate the Drew program, I came to absolutely love it. The experiences that revolve around the CDU staff have been nothing but positive, and it seems like there are two sets of faculty going out of their way to get you where you want to be. I mean this in the least offensive way possible to any and all other schools, but it felt like I wasn't just a URM with a high MCAT to them.

After much debate, I took a very close look inside at who I am and what I want out of my medical school experience. In my case, it's working with underserved populations and getting them better outcomes than what they are now. I am turning down a full COA offer from a school one can only dream of getting into to pursue what I value. I recommend you experiment by talking to the people who know you and who you are, and set out a list of things that you value from each school to discuss them.

Best of luck and congratulations on these incredible opportunities.

 

[deleted1161395]

I will say that as I continued to investigate the Drew program, I came to absolutely love it. The experiences that revolve around the CDU staff have been nothing but positive, and it seems like there are two sets of faculty going out of their way to get you where you want to be. I mean this in the least offensive way possible to any and all other schools, but it felt like I wasn't just a URM with a high MCAT to them.

After much debate, I took a very close look inside at who I am and what I want out of my medical school experience. In my case, it's working with underserved populations and getting them better outcomes than what they are now. I am turning down a full COA offer from a school one can only dream of getting into to pursue what I value. I recommend you experiment by talking to the people who know you and who you are, and set out a list of things that you value from each school to discuss them.

Best of luck and congratulations on these incredible opportunities.

UCSF & UCLA both emphasize working with underserved communities, so I don't believe that there is much distinction there. Yet I agree that CDU could provide valuable perspectives & resources.