Vandy vs. Einstein

[OreoLover365]

Hey everyone! I am extremely grateful to have received so much support on SDN throughout the cycle! I am also thankful for being admitted to both Vanderbilt and Albert Einstein. It has been difficult to decide between the two schools, so I hope I can get some of your feedback!

Vandy (COA = ~320-370K for 4 years)
Pros

• Curriculum
  • 1 yr preclinical (as opposed to Einstein's 1.5 yr preclinical) - I see this as a pro since Vandy students say the curriculum cuts out a lot of fluff, and it allows me to be fully immersed in the clinic earlier
  • Immersion Phase - this encompasses 3rd and 4th year. Since there is a 1 year preclinical, students are able to use that extra time during 3rd and 4th year to have 3-6 months of dedicated research time. They also have time to choose when their dedicated flex months are for pursuing passions or studying boards.
  • P/F preclinical and clinical years, no AOA
• Location
  • Around a 3 hour drive from home
  • More familiar with the South since I have lived there my entire life
• Vibed really well with the students on interview day and Second Look Weekend
• Dream school
• Very focused on student wellness
• Mentorship seems highly valued through the House system

Cons

• Cost
• Less diversity in Nashville than NYC (but I personally do not weigh this very heavily)

Einstein (free tuition, COA = ~120K for 4 years)
Pros

• Free tuition
• NYC is somewhere new to explore (but the Bronx is like an hour away from Manhattan)
• Big mission to help the underserved population

Cons

• Far from home
• Tiered clinical grading (H/HP/P/LP/F), AOA (preclinical is P/F though!)
• Didn't really enjoy my "Second Look" - it was just a 1 hour tour from a current M1 because they do not have a formal Second Look Weekend, and I didn't get to see much of the facilities. I'm not sure how much this should weigh in the decision though.
• Safety in the Bronx? People say its safe if you are careful, but if you need to be careful, then is it truly safe? I genuinely don't know since I have never lived in the Bronx and only visited for an hour during the day.
• Einstein students have said that there is not much formal mentorship - instead, you have to seek it out yourself. This is fine overall since I understand this is how the world works, but it is much nicer to have a built in mentorship system

Neutral - both schools seem to match into every specialty. I am undecided on specialty but may lean toward a more competitive specialty. I am not sure how much this matters much in the decision.


Summary: Overall, I think my interests and values align better with Vandy compared to Einstein, so I am mostly deciding if all these benefits make Vandy worth the cost compared to free tuition at Einstein. Thank you for reading this post and for any input you may have!

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[dotsquared]

As someone on the waitlist for Einstein, take the free tuition and run

 

[Bowel-Plumber]

I have mixed opinions on free tuition vs paid tuition in certain cases, and this is one of them. I saw a Dell (Tx school) vs Columbia for $40k vs $400k on this thread and I personally voted for Dell because I felt that the $360k difference is really large and being close to home is important to a lot of people.

In your case, it's not so similar. For starters, your schools are much closer in caliber than Dell and Columbia, but the difference in debt is also much smaller. $200k is still a pretty sizable difference, which is leaning me towards Einstein. Had it been closer to $100k in difference or had the caliber of the schools been so far off, I might have leaned a bit more towards Vandy.

Tough decision but I'm going to stick with Einstein. If you could maybe get Vandy to drop it to around the $220k COA if you show them the Einstein offer, then I think the difference could possibly be worth choosing Vandy.

 

[Hector Rivera]

I would also suggest what a previous commenter said: try to negotiate with Vandy if that is where your heart is. Personally, I would take the free tuition, but thats because money is a huge concern for me. Your happiness is also a factor. I would like to take a moment to discuss some of your cons about Einstein:

1. I understand what you mean by "Is it really safe if you need to be careful" but my thought process is you should be careful everywhere. The area that surrounds Einstein is relatively better than other areas of the Bronx. As someone who is from NY, I will say that NY is different than anything others have experienced because of how busy and big it is, but you can quickly become acquainted with the "NY Lifestyle". If you aren't used to it, it will feel weird, but I think you will become used to it quickly. I hope this makes sense.

2. The formal mentorship thing was something I thought about as well when I was touring Einstein (and am still considering), but I believe they are trying to address this a bit more with the new "Learning Communities". I know this isn't the most fleshed out thing, but I think it'll help with the formality of it.

Overall, I'll say this: If you are already possibly considering a more competitive specialty, truly love Vandy AND can get them to lower their cost a bit, I think the additional debt might be worth it. If you can't, give Einstein another chance and see if you can talk to more students about it to get their vibes, if you can visit again try to do that too. I originally didn't love Einstein, but grew to really really like it as much as my other top schools.

Best of luck!

 

[dihedralsymmetry]

I might be going against the popular opinion here but I honestly would seriously consider/pick Vandy if I was in the same situation. The value of true P/F all the way through + no AOA, the 1 year pre-clinical, and the additional time that this gives you to do research (both during pre-clinical/clinical phases and the dedicated time) are pretty huge IMO especially with how huge research is for some specialties. I feel like the benefits to wellness from the curriculum, proximity to home, and overall culture/vibes based on your post will be super valuable, and will better help you get to where you want to go (i.e. competitive specialty). The bump in prestige with Step 1 P/F could also be helpful.

While the debt is significant, you will be able to pay it back (especially if you do a high-paying competitive specialty) and I think you will have so much more peace of mind and support over 4 long years at Vandy which is hard to quantify. You definitely can't go wrong either way, but I don't think it's as simple as "take the free tuition and run". Again, in your shoes I would seriously give Vandy another look and ultimately might end up choosing it, but I don't envy your decision!

 

[ioloil]

100% Einstein. In a few years, Einstein's rankings will shoot up like NYU's did so I don't think Prestige should be a factor. The Bronx is pretty safe contrary to popular belief, and you have NYC right at your hands. The value of ZERO tuition vs 320k of debt is a massive difference. You won't have the pressure of needing to pay off loans during your 30s. Vandy is a great choice, but Einstein probably has the edge

 

[sparky21]

I think your pros for Vanderbilt are certainly super important factors in choosing a medical school- no AOA, clinicals, proximity to support system, etc. Whether these factors are worth another 200K + interest in debt? Probably not, but that’s ultimately up to you. You are someone who will certainly succeed regardless of where you go and it’s not like you are comparing Vanderbilt to some t100 school- Einstein is a super reputable school that trains great clinicians. I think there are a lot of good changes coming- learning communities, NBME exams, etc. and I think lots more to come with this new money and recognition that they have received. In terms of the bronx, you need to be careful in any major US city. I visited schools in other cities like Philly and Boston and was essentially told the same thing- safe but stay vigilant, don’t walk alone at night, etc. just a precaution with living in an urban environment, Einstein is in a pretty campusy residential pocket of the bronx. Overall I think it really boils down to what you value but I don’t think you can go wrong with either decision!! Congrats

 

[Hollow Knight]

Look man, Vandy is great, but that student debt is wild. If you decide to go into pediatrics for example, you'll basically be forced to A) do a different specialty or B) do HPSP, PSLF, or some weird thing to pay your loans off.

I'd do Einstein

 

[OreoLover365]

Thank you all for your responses @dotsquared @Bowel-Plumber @It's Over!!! @Hector Rivera @dihedralsymmetry @ioloil @sparky21 @Hollow Knight . One thing I forgot to mention is that my family would be able to help me pay and I am interested in pursuing a competitive specialty. Would this change anyone's opinion, or would Einstein still be the winner?

 

[sparky21]

I’m probably going to Einstein over schools I think I would be happier at and prefer location wise (to be fair they aren’t t20s). My family was also willing to help me pay a bit but in my mind that’s money that’s better spent towards a down payment of a house, a wedding, etc rather than towards tuition when you literally have a tuition free option. Happy to talk more over Dm since I’ll likely be going there even though it wasn’t my first choice

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Look man, Vandy is great, but that student debt is wild.

If you think that’s wild, check out this thread about what some of your dental colleagues are up against…

USC FIRST YEAR Cost of Attendance $173k 2023-2024

People are still applying! 2012: $114k (4% increase) 2013: $123k (8%) 2014: $127k (3%) 2015: $130k (2%) 2016: $134k (3%) 2017: $137k (2%) 2018: $140k (2%) 2019: $149k (6%) 2020: $152k (2%) 2021: $154k (1%) 2022: $162k (5%) 2023: $168k (4%) 2024: $173k (3%) *Plus interest rates of 6%+ for...

forums.studentdoctor.net

Big Hoss

 

[RunnerDad]

Thank you all for your responses @dotsquared @Bowel-Plumber @It's Over!!! @Hector Rivera @dihedralsymmetry @ioloil @sparky21 @Hollow Knight . One thing I forgot to mention is that my family would be able to help me pay and I am interested in pursuing a competitive specialty. Would this change anyone's opinion, or would Einstein still be the winner?

If by helping you pay, you mean you will avoid most of the debt that Vandy would otherwise incur to you, then imo that tips the scale strongly in favor of Vandy. It's clearly the superior school.

 

[Bowel-Plumber]

Thank you all for your responses @dotsquared @Bowel-Plumber @It's Over!!! @Hector Rivera @dihedralsymmetry @ioloil @sparky21 @Hollow Knight . One thing I forgot to mention is that my family would be able to help me pay and I am interested in pursuing a competitive specialty. Would this change anyone's opinion, or would Einstein still be the winner?

It doesn’t really change my opinion. Unless you’re some trust fund baby or have a sugar daddy or something, it’s a large difference no matter who is paying for it. Personally, I don’t view my parent’s money as free money even if they can afford to give me whatever they can.

Again, everyone’s family dynamic is totally different so take this with a grain of salt. I would personally feel a bit selfish having them pay the cost difference for a school I chose that really wasn’t that much better. Had it been the Dell vs Columbia story then maybe I wouldn’t have felt so bad taking my family’s money if they offered to help. But between Einstein and Vandy, it’s pretty much nitpicking.

You’re better off taking the money your family would have helped you pay for school with and throwing it into a brokerage or retirement account or saving for some things like a down payment on a house or money you may need to get married.

My point is that in the end of the day it’s real money whether it’s coming from your pocket or not and should be used wiser rather than given to the school for not so much upside. Unless you’re a trust fund baby swimming in money. In that case, choose Vandy and help me pay for my tuition as a token of appreciation for the advice lol

 

[OreoLover365]

It doesn’t really change my opinion. Unless you’re some trust fund baby or have a sugar daddy or something, it’s a large difference no matter who is paying for it. Personally, I don’t view my parent’s money as free money even if they can afford to give me whatever they can.

Again, everyone’s family dynamic is totally different so take this with a grain of salt. I would personally feel a bit selfish having them pay the cost difference for a school I chose that really wasn’t that much better. Had it been the Dell vs Columbia story then maybe I wouldn’t have felt so bad taking my family’s money if they offered to help. But between Einstein and Vandy, it’s pretty much nitpicking.

You’re better off taking the money your family would have helped you pay for school with and throwing it into a brokerage or retirement account or saving for some things like a down payment on a house or money you may need to get married.

My point is that in the end of the day it’s real money whether it’s coming from your pocket or not and should be used wiser rather than given to the school for not so much upside. Unless you’re a trust fund baby swimming in money. In that case, choose Vandy and help me pay for my tuition as a token of appreciation for the advice lol

I do see your overall point, but I have some push back against it.

In my opinion, I feel like there are sizeable differences between Vandy and Einstein, which are outlined in my original post. I personally don’t think they are nitpicky differences, or else my decision would be MUCH easier. Especially when it comes to P/F clinicals, I will have a much less stressful time and can focus on truly being a better clinician rather than adjusting my behavior to fit whatever requirements I need to get honors. Maybe I don’t fully understand clinical year grading, so please clear up any misunderstandings (I have just heard clinical grades are pretty subjective). Plus, the dedicated research time at Vandy would put me in a better spot to get pubs for residency (and not have to potentially take an extra research year, which would make me lose a year of attending salary down the road). These seem like pretty big quality of life changes, on top of everything else I mentioned.

And I do plan on paying my parents back ASAP, so it’s not like I’m selfishly just taking the money. Of course I feel guilty having my parents pay, but if they are willing, then should this “selfishness” be a consideration?

 

[Bowel-Plumber]

I do see your overall point, but I have some push back against it.

In my opinion, I feel like there are sizeable differences between Vandy and Einstein, which are outlined in my original post. I personally don’t think they are nitpicky differences, or else my decision would be MUCH easier. Especially when it comes to P/F clinicals, I will have a much less stressful time and can focus on truly being a better clinician rather than adjusting my behavior to fit whatever requirements I need to get honors. Maybe I don’t fully understand clinical year grading, so please clear up any misunderstandings (I have just heard clinical grades are pretty subjective). Plus, the dedicated research time at Vandy would put me in a better spot to get pubs for residency (and not have to potentially take an extra research year, which would make me lose a year of attending salary down the road). These seem like pretty big quality of life changes, on top of everything else I mentioned.

And I do plan on paying my parents back ASAP, so it’s not like I’m selfishly just taking the money. Of course I feel guilty having my parents pay, but if they are willing, then should this “selfishness” be a consideration?

That’s totally fine. Again, I’m just a stranger who is looking to open up a plumbing service for all your bowel needs. You seem to really value Vandy’s lifestyle over Einstein so you should go there. It’s all about preference. Some of us may think the cost justifies the value while others don’t and that’s completely fine.

You really sound like you would be much happier at Vandy and that’s important. If your parents have the means to support you then no need to feel selfish. I said I would feel that way because I couldn’t see the value but if you can then the cost justifies it. Congrats!

 

[ACKjp]

If your parents are able to support you then I think vandy is the clear winner

 

[FFforM1122]

I do see your overall point, but I have some push back against it.

In my opinion, I feel like there are sizeable differences between Vandy and Einstein, which are outlined in my original post. I personally don’t think they are nitpicky differences, or else my decision would be MUCH easier. Especially when it comes to P/F clinicals, I will have a much less stressful time and can focus on truly being a better clinician rather than adjusting my behavior to fit whatever requirements I need to get honors. Maybe I don’t fully understand clinical year grading, so please clear up any misunderstandings (I have just heard clinical grades are pretty subjective). Plus, the dedicated research time at Vandy would put me in a better spot to get pubs for residency (and not have to potentially take an extra research year, which would make me lose a year of attending salary down the road). These seem like pretty big quality of life changes, on top of everything else I mentioned.

And I do plan on paying my parents back ASAP, so it’s not like I’m selfishly just taking the money. Of course I feel guilty having my parents pay, but if they are willing, then should this “selfishness” be a consideration?

Paying back your parents is still going to be a large part of your attending salary for a couple years. Are you okay with pushing off buying a house, and not being able to use your salary for a while for non p/f grading? Einstein also matches very well for competitve specialties so I don't think theres a massive difference in match outcomes. I'm not sure if that is worth the financial headache and it seems that you will absolutely do well everywhere you are. ultimately it's your choice of course, but that's just my 2 cents.

 

[johnr42700]

It sounds like you had Vanderbilt built up as a "dream school" before applying, and then came an incredible offer that is making you significantly reconsider.

Einstein is a fantastic school, close to Vanderbilt and others, and the gap will likely vanish with time. NYC is also an incredible city, and paying no tuition for medical school (even if your parents are able to take on the financial burden) is a true gift.

Echoing others' sentiments, I think there's a clear choice here. But you'll do great regardless of your choice, and Vanderbilt is an incredible school. Whatever you choose, congrats!!

 

[2023applicantxd]

I loved Nashville and loved vandy so much for ug and all my vandy med friends love their curriculum and lives + I love the south + the weather meanwhile I think I’d hate the Bronx so for me it’d be worth it to go to vandy lol

But in ur case prob Einstein

 

[OreoLover365]

I loved Nashville and loved vandy so much for ug and all my vandy med friends love their curriculum and lives + I love the south + the weather meanwhile I think I’d hate the Bronx so for me it’d be worth it to go to vandy lol

But in ur case prob Einstein

Wait why would you still say Einstein given what you said? Just curious

 

[2023applicantxd]

Wait why would you still say Einstein given what you said? Just curious

Bc everyone else is saying Einstein tbh

Honestly think you’d love and be way happier at vandy and also bc I didn’t fully read it till just now

 

[drtobe_]

Disclaimer: I'm on the WL at Einstein

I think it would help if you were able to talk to students at Einstein and Vandy to see where you would fit better. Einstein is an incredible school and there are so many reasons to choose it over some other schools but in your case it seems like you are set on Vandy but the recent news is what really changed your perspective. It seems like the finances may not be a huge concern for you either based on how you are more readily saying that you would pay your parents back then saying something about Einstein that's pulling you there instead if that makes sense. Only other thing I can think of is where you want to practice long term since Einstein seems to match a lot in NYC (depending on the specialty – like IM).

It's easy for others to say that you should go to one school over another but it's ultimately your choice and both schools are amazing! I'm sure you'll love being in NYC or Nashville and make the most of either opportunity.