whats the deal with georgetown, good or bad??

[geldrop]

#1 Georgetown has good name recognition
#2 but its not even on the top rated list of medical schools for research or primary care
#3 I heard its in debt the university?? Dunno if thats true
#4 they have a 10.4 avg mcat score yet not even on the list???

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[Adcadet]

It has once been suggested, tentatively, that it may be, at least theoretically, possible that US News may not, in fact, be the definitive ranking guide for every medical school for every person.

 

[Nirvana]

Originally posted by Adcadet
It has once been suggested, tentatively, that it may be, at least theoretically, possible that US News may not, in fact, be the definitive ranking guide for every medical school for every person.

geldrop - Georgetown has actually been ranked for all of these years...up until last year. And their drop off the list didn't just come from being #48 or #49 to just "slipping off"...their disappearance was less subtle than Laci Peterson's. It's been suspected for years that US Snooze takes payola from all of the schools to be ranked on their list and where they're ranked. Georgetown's recent financial problems and then subsequent booting from the list last year is just more evidence that US Snooze is nothing more than a ***** willing to give up the goods to whomever will pay.

 

[geldrop]

I dunno, the research budgets are pretty in line with their score on the us news ranking list of research. I should look up georgetown's research budget.

Anyone know why the recent financial troubles with georgetown they charge a heck of a lot and i am sure have very wealthy alumni.

 

[Tuesday Weld]

Originally posted by geldrop
#1 Georgetown has good name recognition
#2 but its not even on the top rated list of medical schools for research or primary care
#3 I heard its in debt the university?? Dunno if thats true
#4 they have a 10.4 avg mcat score yet not even on the list???

The avg gpa of their students is even more impressive. And their name recognition isn't just "good". It's one of the best in the country.

Regarding as to their financial trouble. A lot of schools get into this.

Ever heard of MCP ?

Oh no. It's called Hahnemman. Ever heard of that school?

Oh wait! It's Drexel !!

Get the picture?

 

[Tuesday Weld]

"US Snooze is nothing more than a ***** willing to give up the goods to whomever will pay."




It's so true!

 

[bw07]

Basically GT is a good school. It's financial problems were probably the source of its drop in the rankings although not in the way the conspiracy theorists here might think. Seriously, the idea that a school's rankings depends on how much they pay is a joke. Hmm, let's look at the criteria: reputation, mcat scores, average gpas, student/faculty ratios, research funding. Ah yes, these numbers have all been fabricated. Harvard is not number 1 because it has top students with top MCATs/GPAs as well as tons of funding. Instead, it paid more than other schools. The students there really aren't that great. Neither are the ones at Hopkins and UCSF for that matter. They got their rankings by paying more for them.

Or the more likely explanation. Medical schools are well aware of how their 100+ peers are doing financially. Learning that their peer was having significant financial difficulties, they concluded that the school was not being run well. The reputation score (the largest factor in the rankings) took a big hit so the school dropped off the rankings. There is always a lag when it comes to perception, so after a number of years of financial stability, GT will come back up in reputation in the eyes of its peers and consequently, it's "ranking" as well.

 

[thealbino]

Hi bw,

Your explanation almost makes the point of what others are saying:
"reputation, mcat scores, average gpas, student/faculty ratios, research funding."

GT has one of the best reputations in the country. In fact, I'm kicking myself for not having applied there!!

Their mcat scores are much better than most schools in the country.

Their average gpas are much better than most schools in the country.

As far as I know, their student/faculty ratios aren't any worse than most of the large-sized schools that are "ranked" by usnews.

That leaves their research funding, which has recently been lowered.

Considering their superior reputation, and their well-above-average mcat scores & gpas, it doesn't make much sense for usnews to have totally dropped GT after them being ranked for decades.

But I do agree with you that like most schools going through money problems, GT will bounce back. And because they have one of the best names in the academic world, they should be ranked within a year or two.

Originally posted by bw07
Basically GT is a good school. It's financial problems were probably the source of its drop in the rankings although not in the way the conspiracy theorists here might think. Seriously, the idea that a school's rankings depends on how much they pay is a joke. Hmm, let's look at the criteria: reputation, mcat scores, average gpas, student/faculty ratios, research funding. Ah yes, these numbers have all been fabricated. Harvard is not number 1 because it has top students with top MCATs/GPAs as well as tons of funding. Instead, it paid more than other schools. The students there really aren't that great. Neither are the ones at Hopkins and UCSF for that matter. They got their rankings by paying more for them.

Or the more likely explanation. Medical schools are well aware of how their 100+ peers are doing financially. Learning that their peer was having significant financial difficulties, they concluded that the school was not being run well. The reputation score (the largest factor in the rankings) took a big hit so the school dropped off the rankings. There is always a lag when it comes to perception, so after a number of years of financial stability, GT will come back up in reputation in the eyes of its peers and consequently, it's "ranking" as well.

 

[Medic2MD]

Having worked as a paramedic in Washington DC for a couple of years I would argue that Georgetown's ranking and reputation in general as a mediocre medical school (certainly not one of the best in the nation) is a result of a combination of their average clinical training and financial crisis. The truth is their ER is extremely slow as compared to Medstar, DC General (which shut down last year), and GW. It was so slow that they lost their trauma 1 designation. Why is the ER so important you ask, because at most hospitals approx. 30-50% of inpatients start out in the ER and then get admitted. Secondly, their pediatrics department is in serious trouble resulting in their pediatric residency program being on probation with the possibility of losing accredidation. Lastly, the hospital is in terrible financial problems even though it was sold by the university to a private company. As far as the reputation within DC, I do not think Georgetown has a great reputation. Anytime any famous individuals get sick, such as Dick Cheney, or other VIPS they all are taken to GW hospital. With all that being said Georgetown does have some excellent orthopods.

 

[bw07]

thealbino:
I think you're referring to reputation in a broader sense. I'm referring to the 120 or so deans that fill out the USnews reputation forms. Their idea of reputation will likely be impacted by financial stability more so than others. So when you say "GT has one of the best reputation in the country," that may or may not be the case (depending on who you talk to), but in the case of medical school dean/presidents, I'm asserting that Georgetown to them, has a much lesser reputation than it once had. Thus, it's drop out of the rankings. Whether or not the school's reputation to anyone other than 120 deans has been changed, I couldn't say.

Originally posted by thealbino
Hi bw,

Your explanation almost makes the point of what others are saying:
"reputation, mcat scores, average gpas, student/faculty ratios, research funding."

GT has one of the best reputations in the country. In fact, I'm kicking myself for not having applied there!!

Their mcat scores are much better than most schools in the country.

Their average gpas are much better than most schools in the country.

As far as I know, their student/faculty ratios aren't any worse than most of the large-sized schools that are "ranked" by usnews.

That leaves their research funding, which has recently been lowered.

Considering their superior reputation, and their well-above-average mcat scores & gpas, it doesn't make much sense for usnews to have totally dropped GT after them being ranked for decades.

But I do agree with you that like most schools going through money problems, GT will bounce back. And because they have one of the best names in the academic world, they should be ranked within a year or two.

 

[Nirvana]

resulting in their pediatric residency program being on probation

When did this happen medic2md? I hadn't heard of that.

With all that being said Georgetown does have some excellent orthopods.

That's true. Not only do they match excellently in ortho surgery, their match list is as high in competitive surgical & other residency specialties.

Medic2md - When people say that Georgetown has one of the best names in the country, I think, as bw07 alluded, that they're referring to their academic name, in general, and not their medical school. Their Law school ranks #4 for their graduates' earning power and their undergrad has one of the best names in the United States. I've spent a lot of time in D.C., and I would say that their reputation is as well-thought of there as in any other part of the country....but I agree, it's not regarding their medical school; it's regarding their graduate programs, law school, and undergrad school.

 

[doepug]

Georgetown has experienced some serious problems retaining its faculty in recent years. Several of their best clinicians and academics have left, leaving many departments intellectually bankrupt. Unfortunately, the medical school is truly in sorry shape academically and financially, and this is unlikely to change anytime soon. As far as reputation goes, G'town has a great law school, but its med school has never been held in high regard.

 

[Medic2MD]

I agree completely with everyone that has said that Georgetown has an excellent reputation as an institution in general. Georgetown is known for their foreign policy school (including the national security program), for its philosophy department, and for its law school. Unfortunately the medical school does not have the same reputation for excellence.


Nirvana:
As for the pediatric residency program being on probation search ACGME (the accrediting agency) and look up Georgetown?s Pediatric Program. Here is the website. http://www.acgme.org/adspublic/

This is taken from the actual website.

Accreditation Status: Probationary Accreditation
Accreditation Effective Date: October 11, 2001
Accredited Program Length: 3 years

 

[Street Philosopher]

because undergrad and other grad dept reputation doesn't count.

 

[Jalby]

I think their med school being ranked right in the middle is just about right. If you ever go on an interview there, just listen to the speach Ms. Sullivan gives, and you will get a good reputation of the type fo school GT is.

Or you could just do a search for GT on here, and get a ton of info. This has been debated before.

 

[Gleevec]

Originally posted by Nirvana


geldrop - Georgetown has actually been ranked for all of these years...up until last year. And their drop off the list didn't just come from being #48 or #49 to just "slipping off"...their disappearance was less subtle than Laci Peterson's. It's been suspected for years that US Snooze takes payola from all of the schools to be ranked on their list and where they're ranked. Georgetown's recent financial problems and then subsequent booting from the list last year is just more evidence that US Snooze is nothing more than a ***** willing to give up the goods to whomever will pay.

Please provide some proof/where you heard that US News accepts bribes in exchange for higher rankings. I dont like the rankings that terribly much either, but they seem pretty consistent to me based on their proscribed methodology.

So yeah, the rankings exist. They probably arent that important in the whole scheme of things, but no need to slander the mag without any proof. I too dont like the rankings methodology that much, but I seriously doubt they take bribes. This would not only make them look bad, but it would make every university look bad as well, and Im pretty sure the good schools arent willing to take a chance on their decades old reputation for the sake of 1 or 2 ranks higher. But if you have proof of this, I would love to see it.

 

[doctor girl]

I don't think anyone suggesting that there's a guy wearing a black hood meeting someone in a parking garage and slipping them an envelope of money.

But to not think that there are "incentives" given to be on that list is nothing short of naive.

It happens in Corporate America every day. Why should Academia be any different?

Originally posted by Gleevec
Please provide some proof/where you heard that US News accepts bribes in exchange for higher rankings. I dont like the rankings that terribly much either, but they seem pretty consistent to me based on their proscribed methodology.

So yeah, the rankings exist. They probably arent that important in the whole scheme of things, but no need to slander the mag without any proof. I too dont like the rankings methodology that much, but I seriously doubt they take bribes. This would not only make them look bad, but it would make every university look bad as well, and Im pretty sure the good schools arent willing to take a chance on their decades old reputation for the sake of 1 or 2 ranks higher. But if you have proof of this, I would love to see it.

 

[Gleevec]

Originally posted by doctor girl
I don't think anyone suggesting that there's a guy wearing a black hood meeting someone in a parking garage and slipping them an envelope of money.

But to not think that there are "incentives" given to be on that list is nothing short of naive.

It happens in Corporate America every day. Why should Academia be any different?

What are these incentives?

US News makes money off of people like us who buy their annual rankings in droves. I dont see how universities are taking part in any "corruption". What sorts of corruption are you talking about, what kind of incentives?

And no, its not naive to call out a comment with no support. I dont like the rankings as much as the next guy, but to assume there is a conspiracy between universities and US News is slander. So what if it happens in corporate america, that doesnt mean anything. That is an incredibly lame argument and doesnt hold any water.

So please, describe this incentives and how evil medical schools and US News get away with it. I would be interested to know whether this is a legitimate complaint, or BS you made up because you dont like the ranking of your school.

PS.. I repeat, I am not a fan of the rankings myself, but I dont like it when people make sweeping comments without any facts to back them up.

 

[Jalby]

Originally posted by Gleevec
I would be interested to know whether this is a legitimate complaint, or BS you made up because you dont like the ranking of your school.

I would guess the second part. GT is one of the few schools that the students go out of the way to tell you how great GT is, over and over and over and over.....

 

[lola]

Originally posted by Medic2MD
Having worked as a paramedic in Washington DC for a couple of years I would argue that Georgetown's ranking and reputation in general as a mediocre medical school (certainly not one of the best in the nation) is a result of a combination of their average clinical training and financial crisis.

average clinical training? i was under the impression that they had a high ranking by residency directors and that the clinical training is exceptional there. this is probably due to overworking their students during 3rd and 4th year, but i guess you get out what you put in.

 

[geldrop]

what was its ranking the last time USNEWS had it in their list??

 

[Jalby]

I think they havn't been on it for 3 years now.

 

[lola]

i posted this info a while back but can't find the post. i did a web search and found that in the late 1990's gtown was ranked around 40-45 or so.

 

[lola]

#39 in 2000

http://www.thehoya.com/news/082799/news3.htm

 

[tBw]

Originally posted by lola
#39 in 2000

http://www.thehoya.com/news/082799/news3.htm

is that a shrewd commentary you are making lola by wrapping the info inside an article critisizing the rankings? Ok, I know it's not, but I still agree...

 

[Jalby]

Wow. They dropped fast.
That being said, realize that that is research ranking. GT is known for producing great clinicians, not researchers. So while I believe the USNews is accurate at reporting what they report, you have to decide for yourself weather the school is where you want to go.

 

[Caerulea]

Originally posted by lola
#39 in 2000

http://www.thehoya.com/news/082799/news3.htm

I know that in 2001, they were also ranked about the same.

 

[lola]

Originally posted by the boy wonder
is that a shrewd commentary you are making lola by wrapping the info inside an article critisizing the rankings? Ok, I know it's not, but I still agree...

i wish there were an evil or manipulative smiley!

btw... for anyone interested, i actually liked gtown quite a bit! the whole ms. sullivan lecture was not that big of a deal, and i viewed it as a good way to get to know the school and its philosophy. there were a couple of things i wasn't too keen on, but it's pretty hard to find a school that has everything you're looking for.