Dental Switching from Pre-med to Pre-dent, but working full time. How do I move forward?

[artist2022]

Hey guys, I'm a student that graduated on May 2017 with a Biomedical Science degree. I have a 3.52 overall GPA, with a 3.55 Science GPA. I did have a downward trend in my last year of college due to very complicated family problems. I've applied twice to Medical School in my time away from college, rejected both times. After the second though, I realized that I really didn't want to go to medical school, but would prefer to go to dental school.

Unfortunately, during those 2 years, I've been helping my dad with his business (farms) and it comes with a terrible schedule where I didn't really ever have much time to myself. I would go into work at 6 AM, and be home at like 6 PM or 7 PM. Recently though, things have finally gotten better and I want to start pursuing going back to professional school. I had already shadowed a dentist (about 50 hours) when I was in college, and I knew I enjoyed it so much. I was naive, and thought that while I had fun, I wanted to chase the prestige that everyone gave to doctors. It pains me that I'm just realizing at this point in my life what I really want, but it is what it is. My question though, is if this is even a possibility, or if I should just focus on finding another career.

My parents both are asking me to go back to college to start a degree in engineering, and keep applying to dental school if that is what I want. The last 2 years I've struggled a lot with depression, since everyone around me seems to be advancing in their lives (both getting into professional school, and just graduating and working). They want me to do this so that I don't waste any more years of my life if I fail to get into dental school. I've considered it, mainly because I'm scared of failing at getting into dental school, but I'm afraid that it would look bad while applying. I have an opportunity to start this degree this coming fall, but I know I would drop engineering the second I got an acceptance into dental school.

I've started shadowing 2 dental offices to make up for shadowing hours, and I'm currently looking for free dental clinics where I could go and volunteer. Most of my volunteering hours are from ESL programs when I was in college and hospital volunteering. I did 2 years of research (with my name on a publication as a co-author), but it was on non-dentistry related research.

I've recently started studying for the DAT, and it is kind of a struggle since I've been out of the ball game for so long. It's been a while since I've seen some of these subjects, so I'm slowly trying to rebuild my foundation.

And of course, there's the problem with my GPA. Like I discussed, while my GPA might sound okay at best, the problem is that there was a downward trend. My first semester I started with a 3.28 (trying to adjust to college). After that, it was 3.8's-4.0's until my 2nd semester Junior year. From there, I got my first 3.5 GPA in a semester, then had a 3.0, and a 3.3 to finish off my college years. I come from Mexico, so during that time we had a lot of trouble coming from that side of the border (I am a legal citizen and have been for 8 years, but most of my family's finances were tied to Mexico). Things got rough, and I admit I let my grades slip (not on purpose, but I was very stressed at this time).

I wanted to give you a little bit of my background so you would understand my situation. So my questions are

Do I have a chance to enter dental school?

What else should I be doing to show dental schools this coming cycle that I am serious in my commitment to dental school?

Should I even apply this year?

What should I do about this engineering plan my parents are begging me to do? Would it look bad if I was trying to get into dental school while also attempting to get a engineering degree should I fail?


I'm 25, and I feel like my life is just racing past me. Everyone tells me I am just starting my life and have time, but I just don't want to fail and be starting a career when I am well into my 30s. A close family friend of ours pursued his dream of getting into medical school until he reached 35 years old, and he failed and went back to college. I feel like this is where my fears come from. I know now that being a dentist is what I want out of my life, but I also want to stay realistic with myself.

Do I have a chance to enter dental school?

I believe you have a chance, but it's currently hindered by your previous applications to medical school AND the downward trend in your GPA (GPAs aren't bad, but the trend could be concerning).

What else should I be doing to show dental schools this coming cycle that I am serious in my commitment to dental school?

Personally, I would shadow and volunteer in dental field as much as you can, to show that you aren't applying to dental school only because you were rejected from med school - you really have to show you are passionate about the field. You could even work as a dental assistant if you wanted.

Another thing, though, is the downward trend. I think the most sensible thing for you to do would be to do a Special Masters Program (SMP) at a university nearby. Doing well in that (since they are graduate courses) will show you can handle the rigors that come with dental school (it is not easy by any means). Keep in mind that these will not suffice for prereqs - you will still have to take those if you haven't previously, or if they are older than 5 years old.

Should I even apply this year?

I would perhaps not apply until the 2022 cycle (which opens June 2021). By then, you should have some grades from a graduate program to show you can do well, have more experience in the dental field, and also have taken your DAT (I would only apply after you have your DAT scores in hand). Studying for the DAT is a beast you must overcome, and is something you need to score well on (like 21-22+) to overshadow some of the weaker parts of your app.

What should I do about this engineering plan my parents are begging me to do? Would it look bad if I was trying to get into dental school while also attempting to get a engineering degree should I fail?

Sooo, this is on you. Engineering would be a great backup should you not get into dental school, but it will not be appealing to schools to say that you are pursuing an engineering degree. As mentioned above, if dental school is your ride or die, I would do an SMP vs. a BS in Engineering.

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[Mr.Smile12]

Engineering is not going to be a great solution if you are trying to maintain a 3.6+ GPA for a shot at dental school. You need to make a definite choice.

You should be networking with dental schools' students and admissions staff to see if there is anyone like you at their programs. Your family history/story should be intriguing to a few, so you may need some strong networking to help assure you if dentistry is where you want to go.

That said, I'm still not convinced that you are making a complete turn away from medicine. You were rejected applying to medical school twice (meaning two cycles in a row), but I don't see where you disclose your MCAT scores. In holistic review, your GPA isn't terrible for some MD or DO programs, so I don't completely get the impression that you have fully researched your options working in health care or have found the right support network through the medical school application process. Where did you apply, and why did you come up with the list of schools that you did?

You also noted that you had experienced depression... how are you addressing this situation now?

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I'm moving away from Medical School because in these two years I've been working, I've realized that I don't want the crazy work life that most doctors have to put in once they graduate. I didn't disclose my MCAT since I didn't think it would matter since I'm moving away from that possibility. My MCAT though was a 498, then retook and got a 508. I applied to every medical school in Texas, excluding Baylor and UT Southwestern. My first application to medical school was in May 2017, I had a few interviews (UNT DO school, UTHSCSA medical school, and UTRGV's new medical school). I reapplied the following cycle, and had no interviews. I only applied to Texas schools because my advisers kept saying that I should get in with my stats, but I guess I know how that ended up.

This is when I really hit my low, and I started going to a therapist and psychologist (in Mexico since I live on the border). A lot of problems caused this, on my last year of college my family was being robbed of everything my parents had worked for (Our finances were very tied to Mexico back then), and went though a couple rounds of kidnaps. Then, because of those problems I let my grades dip which didn't help with my mental health. The rejections were kind of my breaking point, and I've since gotten my mental health back to good. It is why I didn't apply for this cycle, because I just needed time to focus on my mental health and to regroup to figure out what my next step was going to be.

I've tried to research as much as I could about my options in both medical school and dental school, but it's been hard because if I want to talk to my school adviser, it takes a month and a half or 2 months to get a 30 minute appointment with them. I hadn't ever even heard of SDN until less than a month ago when a student shadowing the same dentist told me about it. My appointment with my adviser won't be until early December, and I figured I'd ask here since it takes so long to talk to my adviser. I've found a couple of private professional school advisers, but they are incredibly expensive ($200-$400 per hour). That wasn't really feasible. I don't really have anyone to turn to for advice, since the few friends I had in college weren't pursuing medical or dental school, and my parents studied in Mexico (don't speak any English).

As for engineering, I've been entertaining that idea because I feel like my life is racing past me. I'm 25, and I've got nothing to show for all my efforts in college. My applications to medical school showed me how there's a real chance that I don't get in to professional school, and it honestly terrifies me. I've known so many people that end up having to go back to college in their mid 30's after failing to get into professional school, or just working in other areas. All the time I spent in college, everyone told me that if I kept decent grades, did research, volunteering and tried to work on my application overall, that I shouldn't have a problem getting in. Now that I'm here, I'm just scared because every application cycle is a year of my life that's put on hold. My reasoning for attempting engineering was that if I couldn't get into dental school, at least I'd have that to fall back on.

I hadn't considered that my GPA could go down lower though if I started engineering this coming fall. I didn't know if my GPA would be affected though if I applied this coming May to dental school since I'd interview/hopefully got accepted mid semester. I've had a lot of time to reflect on what my next step should be, and I've always known I'd be happy as a engineer if worse came to worse. My original plan for college was to go into engineering alongside my medical school requirements. On my orientation though, my adviser highly recommended against this, mainly because of my GPA. She convinced me, and I swapped to Biomedical Science. But I know that I would be happy as a engineer, or a dentist. My father was a civil engineer and I spent a lot of time with him at work, and I've shadowed dentists (I've got about 75 hours now). If asked to choose one over the other though, I'd choose dentistry.

About networking, how does one go about networking with admissions staff?

Thank you all by the way, I really appreciate any advise you can give me.

Thank you for sharing. By metrics and demographics, I would also agree that on face value, I would think you would have had some interviews as well, so it is disappointing that it didn't happen in your reapp.

That said, studying for the DAT is simpler than the MCAT, and the SDN forums on the DAT may be helpful for you to come up with a study schedule and a strategy. I would definitely suggest hitting around 100 or more hours of dental experience as a goal if you haven't done so, and your plan to also work or volunteer in free clinics is going to help. I would also make sure you do some networking, especially with local dentists and know about the local dental association and any other affinity groups at the local, state, and national level. I'm pretty sure there is a Hispanic Dental Association chapter for the state of Texas and local affiliates as well. Strong mentoring is key. (Of course, there are similar organizations in medicine as well.)

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I'm planning to shadow until I have about 150 hours of shadowing dentists. Since I posted this, I've started shadowing 2 different local dentists, 3 hours each day, 4 days a week (Monday through Thursday). I'm still trying to start volunteering in the local free dental clinic, just have to do some paperwork stuff (I'll volunteer on Fridays starting this week or next week). I'm still trying to decide what study materials/schedule to put for myself, but I think I should have that decided by this weekend and hopefully studying for the exam next week. Hopefully, I'll be able to get one or both of the dentists to write me a rec letter for this coming cycle though.

How would I go about knowing about the local dental associations and other groups? I tried googling for local associations but I didn't really find anything. There's a chapter for the Hispanic Dental Association, but the closest Chapter is 5 hours away (Houston).

Who can I turn to for Mentoring though? All of the dentists that I looked up around my area are all older gentlemen/ladies. When I ask any questions to the two dentists that I shadow, both tell me that they couldn't give me good advice since it's been decades since they entered school. And my adviser from college takes two months to get an appointment with her.

If I end up getting a decent score on the DAT, do you think I stand a good chance at getting in if I applied this cycle (May 2020) even with my downward trend?

1) Email the HDA office for your state and see if there is a member who lives closer to you at least to chat about dentistry. The Texas Dental Association also should be helpful.

2) Look up the dental schools in Texas and check out any featured alumni, especially those who graduated recently, and connect with them. Dentistry is such that, yes, you have to navigate the generational differences with many not employing contemporary technology and they like it. But they have to ultimately be concerned about what to do when they decide to retire and need to figure on a succession plan. Smart dentists in that older generation are going to realize that and embrace you; if they don't, find someone who will.

3) Your DAT will not be the only thing that will determine your fate in the application process. You need the full package, including supporters in your corner who feel you can make an impact as a dentist in the future.