Doesn't seem like a bad thing though..... There is a shortage of primary care doctors in many states and regions including Arizona. So it makes sense that a state funded school would push resources towards primary care.
2019-2020 Arizona - Tucson
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FinallyReady
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I don't think it's unusual for a publicly funded state-school to want graduates to stay in their state. I'd think that's the norm.
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deleted951056
I'm a current student. Wanting more people to go to primary care is perfectly acceptable.Not disclosing step averages to current students, having a step 1 deadline significantly earlier than most schools and having a curriculum that does the opposite of prepare you for step 1 on the contrary, is unacceptable.
Furthermore, there are dozens and dozens of students who would love to go into primary care even with higher scores. Placing more importance on step 1 doesn't mean everyone's going to go into dermatology.
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deleted951056
Just wanted to post some additional insight for students making a decision about what school to matriculate to. These things may seem like they don't matter now, but it is much better to clarify things prior to matriculating rather than be unhappy and bitter halfway or 3/4 way through your medical education
1. For the class of 2021, the Step 1 deadline was set around February 14th, 2019 of your MS2 year. This shows how slipshod and egregiously bad decision making is at UA-Tucson. There is a massive disconnect between students and administration about the importance of step 1 and making students take it insanely early has zero benefit. Residency programs care about your score. They will not be nice about it just because you had to take it earlier than other schools.
2. For the class of 2022, the Step 1 deadline was moved. However, there was a mandatory 2 week Kaplan course during the dedicated study period. When students pressed administration about the necessity of this mandatory course which broke up the dedicated period, the response was simply "this decision was made a long time ago". Administration additionally said "we have been doing this a long time". The attitude seems to be that since Tucson has been around for a long time, somehow student input should not matter. That somehow the all knowing administration should never be questioned. Nevermind that the landscape of medical education has changed or that step 1 is insanely harder today than it was when administrators and decision makers took the exam. Do you want to go to a school that provides transparency over how decisions were made and one that puts students first? Or one that hides how decisions are made and one that treats you like a pawn in their larger game?
3. The student learning team claims to be data driven. The irony of this is that when students asked what the step 1 averages have been, they were told that out of privacy concerns, the class averages cannot be disclosed. The additional irony is that outside of student learning, posters of previous students' test scores are literally posted in a massive study examining trends in Step 1. Why doesn't privacy matter here? Seems like "privacy" only matters when step averages are worse than expected.
4. The school claims that "specialists" will help you succeed on step 1. These are specialists who literally have never opened uworld or first aid. They have zero experience with studying for step 1....yet will somehow have a massive role in your preparation for a career defining exam. It is borderline criminal that "specialists" who have zero experience with an exam and are neophytes have such a massive role.
5. The truth is that UA-Tucson has had below average step 1 scores for years now. However, decision makers do not care. They just need you to pass. The accelerated curriculum 100% puts you at a disadvantage for step. What exactly is the rush to take it so early? There is no viable explanation.
6. Until residency program directors stop caring about step 1 scores, this stuff matters. Yes, clerkship grades and step 2 ck also matter...but make no mistake about it, step 1 still matters.
7. There was very little thought put into the accelerated pre-clinical curriculum. The same notes/lectures were simply crammed into 18 months, with minor adjustments at the margins. Class notes are outdated and are unnecessarily verbose. Changes are happening, but not quick enough. Changes at this school are made at the margins. A small change here and a small change there.
1. For the class of 2021, the Step 1 deadline was set around February 14th, 2019 of your MS2 year. This shows how slipshod and egregiously bad decision making is at UA-Tucson. There is a massive disconnect between students and administration about the importance of step 1 and making students take it insanely early has zero benefit. Residency programs care about your score. They will not be nice about it just because you had to take it earlier than other schools.
2. For the class of 2022, the Step 1 deadline was moved. However, there was a mandatory 2 week Kaplan course during the dedicated study period. When students pressed administration about the necessity of this mandatory course which broke up the dedicated period, the response was simply "this decision was made a long time ago". Administration additionally said "we have been doing this a long time". The attitude seems to be that since Tucson has been around for a long time, somehow student input should not matter. That somehow the all knowing administration should never be questioned. Nevermind that the landscape of medical education has changed or that step 1 is insanely harder today than it was when administrators and decision makers took the exam. Do you want to go to a school that provides transparency over how decisions were made and one that puts students first? Or one that hides how decisions are made and one that treats you like a pawn in their larger game?
3. The student learning team claims to be data driven. The irony of this is that when students asked what the step 1 averages have been, they were told that out of privacy concerns, the class averages cannot be disclosed. The additional irony is that outside of student learning, posters of previous students' test scores are literally posted in a massive study examining trends in Step 1. Why doesn't privacy matter here? Seems like "privacy" only matters when step averages are worse than expected.
4. The school claims that "specialists" will help you succeed on step 1. These are specialists who literally have never opened uworld or first aid. They have zero experience with studying for step 1....yet will somehow have a massive role in your preparation for a career defining exam. It is borderline criminal that "specialists" who have zero experience with an exam and are neophytes have such a massive role.
5. The truth is that UA-Tucson has had below average step 1 scores for years now. However, decision makers do not care. They just need you to pass. The accelerated curriculum 100% puts you at a disadvantage for step. What exactly is the rush to take it so early? There is no viable explanation.
6. Until residency program directors stop caring about step 1 scores, this stuff matters. Yes, clerkship grades and step 2 ck also matter...but make no mistake about it, step 1 still matters.
7. There was very little thought put into the accelerated pre-clinical curriculum. The same notes/lectures were simply crammed into 18 months, with minor adjustments at the margins. Class notes are outdated and are unnecessarily verbose. Changes are happening, but not quick enough. Changes at this school are made at the margins. A small change here and a small change there.
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interleukin1beta
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@AdmissionsOffice Hello! Is the next round of acceptances this month?
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Hello all,
I am a current MS4 at UA COM-Tucson and would like to provide some input after having ignored the forum so far this year. Having skimmed through the forum now, I regret this because sunset_89 is the loudest student voice and I would argue they hold opinions that are not shared across the board and are somewhat short-sighted (in my opinion). As I write this, keep in mind I came from the last class to have the old curriculum, but having been with the school for a few years and having finished clerkships and applied for residency, I do have some experience to write from.
First, so much discussion has been made around step 1 including timeline and curriculum teaching to it. "This shows how slipshod and egregiously bad decision making is at UA-Tucson." This decision was not slipshod. There was extensive research and planning for years. There were committees with a variety of people involved including faculty, staff, and students. The curriculum changes and timeline had to be approved by the accrediting body. Not only that, but there were other schools that have made the similar curriculum changes in recent years that they were able to learn from, including UofA COM-Phoenix (already on an accelerated curriculum for years with Step 1 in Feb). The school actually cares about your success. It is not a private, for profit school like some MD, many DO, and many Caribbean schools, that just want your tuition money. This school has tons of dedicated folks in leadership that have done their best to make this a well informed and well executed change with the primary goal to improve the education of the students.
Next, as has been said before, much of the individual success on step 1 has to do with individual factors like how hard each student studies, how efficiently they study, and the use of 3rd party resources (many of which are provided free by this school BTW). Of course the importance of step 1 score is changing with the change to pass/fail, but still I would argue that the average step 1 score is not a true reflection of the quality of education you will receive. There is a selection bias with med school admissions, where schools like U Mich will have higher step 1 scores in large part due to accepting a much higher average MCAT score. U of A COM-Tucson is truly a school that emphasizes a holistic review in selection of candidates and strives to select students who fit the mission statement and vision through the secondary essays and interview. The school accepts a lower MCAT average, and this can partially explain future performance, whether through test taking abilities or study habits.
In a prior post, sunset_89 also said "The class notes, lectures, and exams do not align with step 1 material. The school exams cover way more minutiae and many students unfortunately fall into the trap of trying to do class stuff and step 1 material simultaneously which backfires." This is not true. simply not. Every professor is well aware of how students are obsessed with preparing for step 1 and do a good job of keep up with what is covered on the test. In fact, I distinctly remember questions on step 1 that were based off material taught in a lecture, but the material was nowhere to be found in the 3rd party resources (First Aid, UWorld, etc). Is step 1 all they teach? Heck no! Do you want to go to a school that only teaches for step 1? I would hope not! Step 1 is a test. Would you want to pay big tuition dollars to only learn material for a test that you can buy from 3rd parties for a fraction of the cost? Again, hopefully not. Your medical education is much much much more than step 1. I repeat, your education is much more that step 1. That test may be all you can think about until the day you take it (hopefully now that changes with pass/fail), but there is so much that you need to learn, even in the pre-clinical years, that is not step 1 material. The class notes and lectures would never be an efficient way to prepare for a comprehensive exam anywhere you are. Lectures are supposed to be the first exposure to the material. The minutiae are important to provide foundational understanding and framework to what you are learning.
In addition to teaching you foundational science material in MS1, MS2 years, I feel this school excels at teaching the other important aspects of your medical education. You will be involved in a cohort of 6 or so students we call "societies" groups where you will learn physical exam skills and history taking. You will learn with skilled standardized patients in a brand new teaching center. You will have access to learn from actual patients in the attached hospital even on a weekly basis staring day 1 which is truly valuable. Come time for clerkships, you will have been given all the tools to be successful and hit the ground running. This also contributes to your future success on Step 2 CS. Overall, I enjoyed each and every one of my clerkships. The residents and attendings you work with here are overall not "malignant" and you are highly protected from abuse as a student here. There are tons of extracurricular activities to get involved in to fit whatever your interests may be, from service to research and more.
Also, the learning specialists never pretend to be experts on step 1 material. They don't need to be though. They are trained and experienced in helping students to learn, hence "learning specialists." If you interviewed here you likely had an info session with them anyways, but they are a good resource if you need them, and you can ignore them if you dont.
I have absolutely No Ragrets coming here and would highly recommend anybody to come. Especially come to second look if you get accepted. You will get an excellent education. You will be surrounding by supportive faculty and staff who will get to know you and care about you. You will save some money in the process living in an affordable city like Tucson (I've got money on the mind now as student loans enter repayment soon). Tucson is a really cool city to live in. It is diverse, has tons of great food (a city of Gastronomy), tons of outdoor activities year round (even snow and skiing within 30 minutes).
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We had two people from my class match into Ophthalmology with the early match this year (that I know of)
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I second all of these things! Being able to start 4th year rotations early will be so helpful. I'm so jealous...
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Also a current student, I would like to second everything that was said here. You can find fault and shortcomings in any medical school you choose. I personally think UA is all about helping their students succeed and resources are super accessible. Like most things in your life at this point, you get out what you put in. Medical school is tough no matter the curriculum or administration and to say you’re at a disadvantage because someone disagrees with some decisions isn’t the most unbiased judgement of a school. I love being at UA and I’m glad I chose UA over the other options I had.
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deleted951056
1. Can you clarify for us when your class took step 1? Wasn't it like July or August of MS2?
2. I can guarantee you that my sentiments are shared by around 30 to 40 percent of both the class of 2021 and 2022.
3. Do you realize how absurd it is to comment on a curriculum you never experienced? Do you realize how insanely different it is to take step 1 February of MS2 compared to 6 months later, like your class and previous generations of Tucson students? Another thing I forgot to mention is suddenly, you have to start studying for step 1 during the summer between MS1/MS2 because of this accelerated step timeline. Yes, you can do research as well, but there are dozens of students who spent a solid amount of time in the summer studying for step 1. Working hard is great, but this detracts from research productivity and time spent with family because you have so many things to juggle.
4. This is purely anecdotal, but I know PLENTY of class of 2021/2022 students who performed very well on the MCAT and share these sentiments.
5. I agree there are tons of supportive staff. The societies program is outstanding and every mentor I have run into is exceptional. Unfortunately, the people making decisions behind closed doors about step 1 do not fall into this category.
6. I would really emphasize to potential matriculants that opining about a curriculum you never went through as "NoRagrets" has done is dangerous. Students in the class of 2021/2022 have actually experienced what I am talking about. I would value the opinion of someone who actually went through this accelerated curriculum any day over someone who is purely speculating and went through the old 2 year curriculum. Let me just say that it's no surprise that the number of students visiting mental health services has spiked in the class of 2021/2022 as a result of this step 1 decision.
7. UA-COM phx has no AOA or internal rankings, which means students can focus solely on step 1 without worrying about poorly written in house exams, so yes, they also have an early step 1 deadline, but they have a slightly different system. I am pretty sure only the University of New Mexico has as deadline as early as Tucson.
8. I agree that once pre-clinicals are done, Tucson is a great program. I agree with your opinions about everything after pre-clinicals/step 1. The problem is that step 1 still matters to program directors and my concerns regarding this are 100% valid until the official date it changes to P/F. Wish the test didn't matter, but until it is officially P/F for whatever entering class that will be, I can say without any doubt that the classes of 2021/2022 suffered enormously because of poor decision making. Unless you actually went through what we experienced, I would back off a bit.
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FinallyReady
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As an incoming student, I value the opinion of someone who isn’t using fear mongering to scare incoming students. As @NoRagrets said, UA is far more holistic in admissions than almost any other MD school. As such, many of us who were admitted were ONLY admitted here and have no other options. What you are doing is instilling fear without offering reasonable solutions or advice for how to prepare for it. So it is not helpful. I hope my fellow incoming students take whatever you said or will say in response to this with a grain of salt. A very large grain of salt...
If you are a third year student, you were the guinea pig. Yes, that must have sucked. Everyone in admissions, along with current students, have been very open with me about how rocky the first year was.
Similarly, making the score for Step one P/F is going to result in a huge unknown for the incoming class. Cue the mass histeria on SDN, reddit, and Facebook.
If you are a second year, you either just took Step One or will do so very shortly. In that case, I can understand the amount of stress you’re under. The current second year students also had a lot of changes to their curriculum, courtesy of recommendations by the current third year students. Although some changes improved things, I’m sure others weren’t helpful. Ex: the mandatory Kaplan course you mentioned.
If you are a first year student, the curriculum has gone through two iterations of improvements. And will continue to do so for my class.
As with any large organization, changes don’t happen overnight. Hopefully you’re channeling your frustrations into working with the faculty and administration to make positive changes for future classes. If not, then you’re part of the problem.
Correlation =/= causation. I’m sure the huge push over the past few years to reduce the stigma and improve well-being of medical students had nothing to do with it.
FinallyReady
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PS. Negativity seems to be your modus operandi. Which is cool, live your life however you want. I just wanted to make sure others are aware of it when they read your posts. You made so many assumptions about me in this post. And then in a subsequent post you said I was being naive. It’s not cool.
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deleted951056
1. Fear mongering? I am sharing things that students will not share at second look because there is enormous pressure on students to be as positive as possible at events like this, which is understandable.
2. You are welcome to make your own decisions. I never said not to come to Tucson. I simply shared my concerns about the experience students have faced with Step 1 over the past two years. There is way more that goes into a medical education than step 1. Unfortunately, many residency program directors don't subscribe to this philosophy yet.
3. Lol stop making Tucson seem like the land of rejects. It's an MD program. There are dozens of students who had outstanding options for med school, including ivy-league schools and chose to stay here. Med school admissions is so massively competitive that every accepted student is more than qualified and many Tucson students likely had other options, though I do not know the exact percentage.
4. I don't mind providing advice if you are coming to Tucson about step 1. If you aren't one of the top 5-10 students who can somehow master class material and remember it for step 1, my advice would be to go to reddit and follow their step 1 advice, not the advice of "learning specialists". Ditch class stuff ASAP and do a pre-made anki deck along with question banks. Study for class exams the week before. Students who are not geniuses have followed this advice and have done well on step. It takes some more guts since you will not know many questions on class exams, but it is worth it for step.
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deleted951056
Dude....you are not even IN medical school. Did not realize this until now. Do you realize how absurd you come across? You have zero idea how much more difficult step 1 preparation is compared to the MCAT. I have said repeatedly that Tucson has outstanding qualities. Societies program is top notch. CUP program is remarkable. Patient population is Tucson is truly unique and you will get a great clinical experience. Lot of great clinical rotation sites. Plenty of research opportunities.
But step 1 matters....and thankfully that is changing soon, but until the match where students only have P or F for step 1 on their residency applications, my concerns about this school and its step 1 preparation are valid.
Some students don't care as much about step 1, which is PERFECTLY acceptable. Test scores do not define someone's self worth and honestly, kudos to students who take this healthy approach.
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FinallyReady
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Right back at ya bud.
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deleted951056
The confidence. The brash attitude. I yearn for the days of being a pre-med who was just accepted to medical school.
Wishing you best of luck and sincerely hope you matriculate to Tucson. Enjoy the next 6-8 months of relative freedom. Please share with us your experiences in 2 years, "bud".
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I took step 1 early June, which puts it 3-4 months after your class. Not an insignificant amount of time, but not 6 months later.
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Hello- The next round of acceptance will go out on 02.21.2020.
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IS and got the call for acceptance! Good luck to everyone still waiting to hear back! 
LaLaLaTra
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Amazing, congratulations! So exciting! When did you interview?IS and got the call for acceptance! Good luck to everyone still waiting to hear back!
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LaLaLaTra
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Yay! Go celebrateThank you!
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Congrats on those accepted! I just got my 4th status update
When did you interview?
JK. Literally JUST got an email saying application is under review lol
Lol same! I interviewed after you, but the email still gave me a heart attack.
yeah my heart dropped since I got an email and no phone call lol. our answer will come probably next round. At least we can breathe easy today.
Yeah totally! Do we know when the next round is?
I'm guessing in 2 weeks? that's the trend I've noticed with the last 2-3 rounds of acceptances
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Nov
Praying for you fam!
What were your LizzyM stats? Thanks!IS and got the call for acceptance! Good luck to everyone still waiting to hear back!
Admissions responded on this thread saying rejections for people who have interviewed will start to go out in March. Since their decisions go out every 2 weeks, I would guess that means there will be post-II rejections during the next round of decisions.
@AdmissionsOffice when will the next round of acceptances and rejections go out? Also any information regarding number of spots left?
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Hello- Another round of acceptances will be sent March 05th. We have admitted 115 students as of today. We admit around 250 students every year with an entering class of 120 every year.
Thank you so much for literally being the best medical admissions staff in the country!
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Wow, I didn't think they gave out 250 acceptances! There's still hope.
When did you interview? OOS?
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I am IS and September
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Same!! And they’ve only given out half of the acceptances so far so that’s encouraging
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I got the call yesterday! Very very excited. Does anyone know, is the ten days they give you to make a decision after the acceptance date just to hold your seat or is that binding and akin to committing to enroll? Like, will other schools see it and have to pull their offer?
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It's just to hold your seat. You can hold multiple acceptances until April 30th. Schools cannot see if you are holding multiple until after that point, is my understanding of the AMCAS tool.
When did you interview?
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9/25
Congrats!!! I interviewed 2/14 (they were my Valentine date) so I hope i get the proposal.
mushu22
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Congratulations!!
Will post-interview rejections also start being sent out this week?
