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Several of my partners swear by it, flying business all over the world etc.
Worth the hassle? Really as easy as they make it out?
Worth the hassle? Really as easy as they make it out?
Agreed.I personally feel like picking one card that suits your needs and putting everything on that card is the easiest way to keep your head straight but also reap some benefits. We recently switched to the platinum this year and are enjoying the benefits of it. Sure I could maximize benefits if I micromanaged multiple cards but I enjoy having one, tracking all my spending on it, and then paying it off at the end of every month and still getting some premium benefits. The key is finding one that you think you can use most of the perks that they offer. I agree with the above posters that some of these companies are cracking down on gaming the system.
some of the perks that these cards don't advertise often make them really worth it. For example, amex will extend the warranty of any purchase made with the platinum. So next time you buy your new iphone, don't pay for the apple care and you'll have an extended 12 month warranty from amex that will reimburse you for any damages (or replacements) that occur in that time frame. Understanding little things like this can make the card much more valuable beyond the basic benefits. Same goes for rental car coverage etc.
I'm actually considering canceling my amex platinum in favor of the boa travel card as the benefits barely seem worth it. The centurion lounge experience has gone severely downhill and the staff are horrible. I keep it for the purchase protection and ability to get tough reservations on short notice.
Agree with this and that Amazon 5% applies to Whole Foods as well if you shop there.I don't think churning is worth the hassle as an attending. However it is worth taking the time to find credit cards that fit your needs. Currently have:
Venture X: 2-10% back travel. 2% everything else. This card is simply amazing for the fee, which ends up being negated by the yearly travel reward.
Savor: 3-4% restaurant and entertainment
Delta amex: free bags and companion pass make this well worth the fee
Amazon: no fee and 5% back on Amazon
Used to have more but canceled them for simplicity. When I use a credit card, I always think if I can get more than 2% back for a category, if not then I use the venture.
The most useful card I’ve found is Costco visa due to gas for my 3 cars. IMO it’s worth it.
But I need a primer on a solid and worthwhile card and tips and tricks as I’m anticipating more travel
Over 10 million dollars in churning? Wow, you must spend 200 million on your credit cards.I've done well into the eight figures worth of churning, all types and varieties of schemes during residency and then continued a bit as an attending. Not worth the time as an attending as many mentioned above. And not nearly as lucrative as it used to be. And if there is some gem out there, you sure as hell aren't going to find it on a forum.
There are secret private groups, teams, true professionals out there constantly trying new schemes and strategies. It's exhausting.
Must mean 10M milesOver 10 million dollars in churning? Wow, you must spend 200 million on your credit cards.
It's easy their travel portal is pretty good. As Dr anon said above, if u travel once per year this card is effectively free and you get a ton of free stuffVenture X seems like a good option. $400/yr is steep. Wonder how hard the $300 travel credit is to utilize.
It's not hard at all. You can literally use it with any flight. They actually have a terrific travel portal capitalonetravel.comVenture X seems like a good option. $400/yr is steep. Wonder how hard the $300 travel credit is to utilize.
Thanks for the comment.I did a deep dive on churning recently. Many of the churning “experts” recommend doing 1 card every 6 month (to avoid getting flagged) and they recommend going through the Chase cards first. At certain intervals you can close the card and reopen to get the bonus again. So going by this you can safely earn about $1-2k a year in points. Not worth it for me. But if you are good at managing your credit card bills and navigating your finances then it might be worth it.
I think there is a bit of confusion in the original statement.. the $1-2k is value of points based on 1 cent per point (cpp) which is what you would get if you choose to cash out your points. However most churners choose to use these points on business class flights which could net you easily 4-5cpp.Thanks for the comment.
Agree with others that churning is probably not for most folks - either the upside or the enjoyment.
Contrast with, in most anesthesia practices you will make $1-2k for something like 2-8hrs of work.
Credit card points are a game (enjoyment) to most of us in our income tax bracket.Thanks for the comment.
Agree with others that churning is probably not for most folks - either the upside or the enjoyment.
Contrast with, in most anesthesia practices you will make $1-2k for something like 2-8hrs of work.
One of my partners (and seemingly some on this thread) claim it’s TENS of thousands in free travel. But I remain skeptical.if you just genuinely enjoy it go for it. if not there are other more fruitful ways save/earn a couple thousand extra a yaer
I’d like to see someone actually calculate what percentage cash back equivalent they are getting. The average points user gets 1.1-1.3% and even then, they are giving up choice on when to fly to use points. The vast majority of points collectors would be better off with 2% cash back with unlimited spending and no categories.One of my partners (and seemingly some on this thread) claim it’s TENS of thousands in free travel. But I remain skeptical.
Yeah, that’s true. I was talking about regular rewards credit card use long term. Churning is different. I wasn’t familiar with the term. Seems like it would be bad for your credit, but maybe the benefits are worth a lower credit score if you aren’t getting mortgage soon.I think people are getting confused between credit card rewards/benefits vs the actual act of churning credit cards for reward points.
Most of the time it’s not worth it to compare which credit card has 3 vs 5 percent back on restaurants, groceries etc especially if it’s revolving categories. It’s just not worth the time and effort to remember it all. Lounge access, travel credits etc all still require lots of work to figure them out.
Whereas true credit card churning which is opening and closing credit cards for initial sign on bonuses are still worth it in my opinion. Get your significant other to sign up separately and refer each other for more bonuses. Just have to remain detailed in a spreadsheet when cards are opened, minimum spending requirements (easily hit nowadays with multiple creative methods).
Result - ever since undergrad I have never paid for a flight out of pocket. I routinely open and close 6-10 cards a year. Now as an attending I have accrued probably close to 3+ million miles on Southwest (with dozens of companion passes) and chase UR. Still have to ration my points and not upgrade to business since I don’t think it’s worth it. I have a family of 4 but overall trending to still never having to pay for a flight since my balance stays the same or goes up. As a family we usually fly 3-4 times a year including international trips. I’m sure those crazier can also play the game with hotel rewards but we like to stay in airbnbs or unique places as well.
Credit impact is pretty negligible actually.Yeah, that’s true. I was talking about regular rewards credit card use long term. Churning is different. I wasn’t familiar with the term. Seems like it would be bad for your credit, but maybe the benefits are worth a lower credit score if you aren’t getting mortgage soon.
I think people are getting confused between credit card rewards/benefits vs the actual act of churning credit cards for reward points.
Most of the time it’s not worth it to compare which credit card has 3 vs 5 percent back on restaurants, groceries etc especially if it’s revolving categories. It’s just not worth the time and effort to remember it all. Lounge access, travel credits etc all still require lots of work to figure them out.
Whereas true credit card churning which is opening and closing credit cards for initial sign on bonuses are still worth it in my opinion. Get your significant other to sign up separately and refer each other for more bonuses. Just have to remain detailed in a spreadsheet when cards are opened, minimum spending requirements (easily hit nowadays with multiple creative methods).
Result - ever since undergrad I have never paid for a flight out of pocket. I routinely open and close 6-10 cards a year. Now as an attending I have accrued probably close to 3+ million miles on Southwest (with dozens of companion passes) and chase UR. Still have to ration my points and not upgrade to business since I don’t think it’s worth it. I have a family of 4 but overall trending to still never having to pay for a flight since my balance stays the same or goes up. As a family we usually fly 3-4 times a year including international trips. I’m sure those crazier can also play the game with hotel rewards but we like to stay in airbnbs or unique places as well.
Do you transfer your points all to the same credit card company after you accumulate them? Which one do you useSo I used to be VERY active on this forum... But about 2-3 years ago, I've been kinda disappeared.
Because I have spent all the free time that I used to spend on here to deep dive into churning circa 2021-2023.
I was late to the game, as those who churned 2016-2020 had a lot more bang for the buck due to gamification of the system.
To answer the OP question: worth is very subjective. We don't have all the same information and values.
To me, it's very well worth it. It takes about 10 mins to apply for a card and about 20-30 on the phone to cancel it. I've been getting pretty consistently 10% of my spend as points back (assuming 1 point = 1 cent). I just cancelled two cards as I was typing this. Rough estimate is that my current churning marginal earn rate is higher than my hourly rate as an anesthesiologist, as all it takes is to apply to a new card, switch it out in my wallet and repeat, it's probably 1 hour of marginal work from opening to cancelling.
I have never paid for a biz class ticket. But I've flown many legs on lay flat business class tickets. The advice I have is : ignorance is bliss.
At this point in my life, quitting churning is a luxury I cannot afford. My wife no longer wants anything less than lay-flat business if we are flying across an ocean (she's fine with upgrading to first class). I'm too filial to leave my mother in the back of the plane if she's coming along. I'm not quite at the 10MM in points but I'd say I'm at least half way there in the last 4 years. It's well worth it for me to switch a credit card every month or two.
This is too nuanced to answer correctly in this forum, as the answer is: it depends. The initial time investment in understanding is very high.Do you transfer your points all to the same credit card company after you accumulate them? Which one do you use
Favorite resources for getting up-to-date? We massively benefitted from our lite-churning in med school (covered for all residency airfare, hotels if applicable, rental cars, and a number of vacation hotel stays. Not to mention the southwest companion pass which was magical). Dropped it completely.This is too nuanced to answer correctly in this forum, as the answer is: it depends. The initial time investment in understanding is very high.
The short answer: I keep everything in transferable points until I need them.
Both a combination of personal and business cards. Take Southwest for example. Right now there are SW plus (50k), SW premier (50k) SW priority (50K) and for business there are Premier Business (80k) and Performance Business (80K). If you wait there can even be promos, maybe 75k for personal and 120k for business (see prior slickdeals postings). Time it well and you can get 400-500k points easily in a year. Personal cards follow a 5x24 chase rule whereas business ones don't. With SW, I usually even book 4-6 months in advance and you can even rebook and get back points if flights get cheaper.I’m not familiar with how the rewards were years ago, but now a days there just aren’t many cards that seem worth it to churn. I mean I know the venture X is 75k bonus miles and sapphire preferred is 60k miles and American Express platinum is 80k points, but these all have start up costs. It’s 400 for the venture and 95 for the sapphire preferred and 695 for the platinum card. Otherwise it seems like all the other credit cards hover around 200-300 for a bonus, but on the flip side they’re all free to use. Can you shed some light on your strategy and how you still find success. Are you going for these cards with high tier credit cards that have annual fees? Are you going for all the 200-300 dollar reward cards that are free? Are you going for business credit cards?