Apply early decision MD while accepted DO

[centesisgirl]

More of an ethical question. I had to turn down OOS MD acceptance for unexpected family reasons but have an in-state DO acceptance that starts in late July. I really want to go to the local MD school (which is less competitive than the OOS one I was accepted to) but applied late last year.

If I reapply early decision to that 1 school this week (will have result by 8/1) is this professional suicide? Do I be upfront and tell them I really want to apply to only them? Or do it secretly?

I do want to do a competitive specialty and match locally and will do almost anything for it.

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[voxveritatisetlucis]

just give the DO acceptance to somebody who wants it and reapply MD.

To answer your question, yes, this does sound very unethical and I’m sure if either school found out, they would be less than thrilled.

 

[BioPsychotic]

MD admission is never guaranteed, and I cannot in good faith recommend that you decline a medical school acceptance to reapply. Early decision admits are generally reserved for those who are either a strong mission fit or have above average stats.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

I do want to do a competitive specialty and match locally and will do almost anything for it.

Also, unless the local state MD school is Umich, UCSF, UVA, UCLA tier this likely won’t be an option anyway. Even from MD, people don’t generally get to pick location + competitive specialty. It’s usually a one or the other type thing

 

[Osminog]

The in-state DO school probably won't consider you after you declined their offer in a prior cycle, and it's far from a guarantee that a particular MD school would accept you just because you apply ED and express interest. If you were to be rejected again by this MD school after applying ED, your chances of getting into an in-state medical school through regular decision would be drastically lower than they were this cycle. If you absolutely must attend an in-state medical school due to your family situation, then declining the DO acceptance and reapplying would potentially preclude you from becoming a physician.

As you are probably aware, matching into a competitive specialty, especially when you have strict regional constraints, is drastically more difficult for a DO student than it is for an MD student. When you declined the offer from the out-of-state MD school, you effectively prioritized your family situation over your future competitiveness for dermatology, orthopedic surgery, neurosurgery, etc. That's perfectly okay and reasonable, but the tradeoff needs to be acknowledged.

 

[Bwesternn]

I really want to go to the local MD school (which is less competitive than the OOS one I was accepted to) but applied late last year.

On top of what the others have said, I want to point out the danger of this line of thinking. Just because your in state MD school is lower in rank (which outside of the heavy hitters, is negligible), it does not make it any less of a gamble.

You should very strongly factor in the possibility that should you decide to turn down your acceptance, you might fail to gain one this upcoming cycle.

 

[hallowmann]

More of an ethical question. I had to turn down OOS MD acceptance for unexpected family reasons but have an in-state DO acceptance that starts in late July. I really want to go to the local MD school (which is less competitive than the OOS one I was accepted to) but applied late last year.

If I reapply early decision to that 1 school this week (will have result by 8/1) is this professional suicide? Do I be upfront and tell them I really want to apply to only them? Or do it secretly?

I do want to do a competitive specialty and match locally and will do almost anything for it.

I mean, I wouldn't tell them anything, and it's unlikely they'll find out or remember you unless you tell them. It is unethical, but if you do it I wouldn't tell them, they might rescind right away.

The bigger issue is that usually first semester tuition is due the first day of attendance, so are you really going to drop five figures and then leave if you get the acceptance? That said, a lot of schools also have late fees that you can pay if you don't pay on the due date, but if you're getting a loan for that first semester disbursement is usually through the school.

If you're going for a competitive specialty and are regionally restricted, then absolutely, hold out for the MD school, but you'd burn the bridge at that DO school.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I would always talk with the admissions office before applying for Early Decision. Not all schools allow open applications (this is not undergrad), and you could throw away some money unnecessarily.

I concur with the advice to move forward with your offer and don't look back.

 

[KnightDoc]

I mean, I wouldn't tell them anything, and it's unlikely they'll find out or remember you unless you tell them. It is unethical, but if you do it I wouldn't tell them, they might rescind right away.

The bigger issue is that usually first semester tuition is due the first day of attendance, so are you really going to drop five figures and then leave if you get the acceptance? That said, a lot of schools also have late fees that you can pay if you don't pay on the due date, but if you're getting a loan for that first semester disbursement is usually through the school.

If you're going for a competitive specialty and are regionally restricted, then absolutely, hold out for the MD school, but you'd burn the bridge at that DO school.

In this case, shouldn't OP just drop the DO and reapply? Isn't submitting an application for one cycle while holding an undisclosed acceptance that has not been released from a prior cycle a cardinal sin, similar to applying while holding a deferral?

 

[BioPsychotic]

The idea of applying to a better medical school while attending medical school seems so bizarre to me. Say you get into the MD program. Are you going to drop out after paying a semester or year’s worth of tuition and wait til the next summer to begin medical school again?

Please just take the offer and run.

 

[KnightDoc]

The idea of applying to a better medical school while attending medical school seems so bizarre to me. Say you get into the MD program. Are you going to drop out after paying a semester or year’s worth of tuition and wait til the next summer to begin medical school again?

Please just take the offer and run.

I think the idea is to get the decision before school begins in late July. Beyond the inconvenience and potential cost (tuition might very well be refundable before classes begin), am I the only one focused on the implications of lying on an application about something that is so easily discoverable?

 

[BioPsychotic]

I think the idea is to get the decision before school begins in late July. Beyond the inconvenience and potential cost (tuition might very well be refundable before classes begin), am I the only one focused on the implications of lying on an application about something that is so easily discoverable?

It’s not stipulated in the EDP terms that you can’t hold an acceptance .. because why in the world would anyone do that.

I’m also fairly certain even an EDP decision wouldn’t come by late July. EDIT: one medical school, Rutgers New Jersey, apparently does provide an EDP decision in July. You also are strongly encouraged to make an appointment with them and discuss applying ED.

I will once again recommend taking the offer and running.

 

[KnightDoc]

It’s not stipulated in the EDP terms that you can’t hold an acceptance .. because why in the world would anyone do that.

I’m also fairly certain even an EDP decision wouldn’t come by late July.

I guess it comes down to whether OP would be considered "matriculated" before classes actually begin, once she has committed to attend. Once orientation begins, however, all bets are certainly off, and she would be lying if she did not disclose. I honestly don't see it as a grey area. If OP doesn't want a DO, she shouldn't have applied and should now withdraw, rather than screwing around, playing all ends against the middle. JMHO.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

If OP does in fact want to pursue a very competitive specialty (ENT, plastics, derm, optho, urology etc.) and is geographically limited, it may be better for her to try EDP or another MD cycle. But if she does want to do this, then I think that it is in good character to withdraw from the DO school

 

[Mr.Smile12]

What say you about submitting the ED AMCAS application for next cycle while simultaneously holding a DO acceptance for this cycle? No problem?

Given that both schools are in the same state, I think there is a significant, non-zero chance OP gets caught sometime between now and summer 2023.

The issue is whether the OP will go ahead and do all the financial aid paperwork, show up for orientation, and then drop. This often happens at DO schools as last-minute WL offers from US MD schools are given out. It's never convenient, but it happens.

My advice is to be fair to the people on the waitlist who want to be doctors and drop the offer now and take your risk. Just because you can do it doesn't mean you should.

All those people on the wait list threads want to be doctors now. Does the OP?

Need the AMCAS prompt on having previously been accepted or enrolled...

 

[candbgirl]

I guess it comes down to whether OP would be considered "matriculated" before classes actually begin, once she has committed to attend. Once orientation begins, however, all bets are certainly off, and she would be lying if she did not disclose. I honestly don't see it as a grey area. If OP doesn't want a DO, she shouldn't have applied and should now withdraw, rather than screwing around, playing all ends against the middle. JMHO.

I agree with you. Doctors are supposed to be highly ethical. This flies right in the face of being unethical. OP really hasn’t said what she’s going to do if she doesn’t get an acceptance at the MD school by the time the DO school starts. Isn’t there a question on the primary about holding an acceptance at a medical school while applying?

 

[KnightDoc]

I agree with you. Doctors are supposed to be highly ethical. This flies right in the face of being unethical. OP really hasn’t said what she’s going to do if she doesn’t get an acceptance at the MD school by the time the DO school starts. Isn’t there a question on the primary about holding an acceptance at a medical school while applying?

I just checked. It only applies to MD, so it looks like OP might be able to get away with it. Still think it is totally unethical. If the plan was not to go forward with the DO school if things don't work out with the ED school, then OP would have already withdrawn.

That said, since the AMCAS question relates strictly to MD "matriculation," I'm going to modify what I said previously, since I don't think OP will technically be breaking any rule.

Previous Matriculation

If you have previously officially enrolled in and attended classes as a candidate for a medical school degree (MD), regardless of country, you are considered a previous matriculant. You will need to answer either Yes or No to the question about previous matriculation. If you select Yes, you will have 1,325 characters to briefly explain your previous matriculation. You must include the name of the school to which you previously matriculated, the degree you sought, and why you are reapplying to medical school at this time.

 

[centesisgirl]

I was thinking of contacting EDP admissions, telling them my story and seeing if I could find out by early July. This would still let me withdraw from DO before orientation and let them accept a waitlisted student. I hope they would appreciate me being upfront about my goals so there nothing to hide… or it could blow up in my face.

I’m also of thinking deferring DO for a year for aforementioned family reasons. It’s a lot to weigh right now. I’m an older non-trad and not getting any younger, but with older age comes family and personal responsibilities. Having a hard time accepting my dream may not work out how I envisioned.

Most competitive I would apply is derm which is not impossible as a DO but will be an uphill battle. There are several traditionally AOA programs in my area which helps the odds.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

If you tell them that, I am almost sure they would reject you. I think that the only answers are

-Apply edp but give up DO acceptance
-Take DO acceptance and don’t apply edp

 

[Bwesternn]

I was thinking of contacting EDP admissions, telling them my story and seeing if I could find out by early July. This would still let me withdraw from DO before orientation and let them accept a waitlisted student. I hope they would appreciate me being upfront about my goals so there nothing to hide… or it could blow up in my face.

How strong are your ties to this school? Do you really think that EDP will go out of their way to give you an extra early decision because you decided to hold onto a seat, and are now having buyer's remorse over?

I hope I don't come off as too harsh when I say that it's time for you to be an adult about the decision you made. Don't deny someone else the opportunity to become a doctor.

 

[candbgirl]

I was thinking of contacting EDP admissions, telling them my story and seeing if I could find out by early July. This would still let me withdraw from DO before orientation and let them accept a waitlisted student. I hope they would appreciate me being upfront about my goals so there nothing to hide… or it could blow up in my face.

I’m also of thinking deferring DO for a year for aforementioned family reasons. It’s a lot to weigh right now. I’m an older non-trad and not getting any younger, but with older age comes family and personal responsibilities. Having a hard time accepting my dream may not work out how I envisioned.

Most competitive I would apply is derm which is not impossible as a DO but will be an uphill battle. There are several traditionally AOA programs in my area which helps the odds.

Since you seem to think that rules can be bent/broken and the medical admissions system revolves around your wants and needs, why not ask the EDP program to put you in this years class. Why wait a year?
I guarantee you there is a hopeful DO student who would happily grab your DO acceptance . It’s not the games you are playing with the EDP application (or even the attitude you expressed about residency) but the idea you are holding a DO acceptance when there seems to be little to no chance you will attend that bothers me.

 

[BioPsychotic]

Since you seem to think that rules can be bent/broken and the medical admissions system revolves around your wants and needs, why not ask the EDP program to put you in this years class. Why wait a year?
I guarantee you there is a hopeful DO student who would happily grab your DO acceptance . It’s not the games you are playing with the EDP application (or even the attitude you expressed about residency) but the idea you are holding a DO acceptance when there seems to be little to no chance you will attend that bothers me.

As someone who was on a waitlist for months, it is truly agonizing for the applicants who may be facing the grim prospect of reapplying. Even the applicants who are lucky enough to have another acceptance will be spending thousands of dollars on deposits and housing while waiting for another school. Not to mention the mental toll that accompanies the wait and uncertainty.